Archer - the Return

B_G said:
Or an Ipswich approach where they loaned a PL striker who helped get them over the line. We could do the same with Archer (or someone else). No one knows what it'll take to get him here but we've managed to do it before. A lot of rumours flying about that Rogers add-ons could be re-negotiated to make the deal easier.

Latte Lath only played 50% of our minutes this season. What's to say the same won't happen again next season.

I don't think you necessarily need to double up on first team quality in every position. But striker we do. Especially the way we play. We need fresh legs off the bench. Lath will come out of form at some point. We need an alternative.
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If we're in an Ipswich position in January - I'd 100% loan a PL striker to get us over the line. No arguments there.

The problem with loaning a PL striker in the summer is you've got two strikers who won't want to only play 50% of the minutes, and we need to prioritise Latte Lath.

He's the best striker we've had for years in my opinion - he could easily score 20-25 goals next season if he stays fit. I think we need to take the risk and just give him the backup options he needs.

I'd sign a Watmore type of player - energetic off the bench, can bring 8-10 goals to the team.

I'd also potentially sign another RW (Tyler Goodrham) as a backup to Jones/Forss which gives us the option of using Forss as another ST option too.

Latte Lath / Watmore-type-player / Forss / Coburn
 
In Carrick's preferred system we need a player who plays on the left or as a 10 who will score and assist 10+ goals a season.

Archer isn't this player. So any attempt to sign him means we're either changing system or moving ELL elsewhere.

However, if we are after him then I trust Carrick and Scott to have a plan. They've done enough to show they know what they're doing.
 
I think if your in the championship next season and your looking for goals to get you back in contention for the top two places and even the play offs then Cameron Archer in your team is a real big plus.

I'd be having nightmares if I was a defender and I knew I was up against Archer and Latte Lath, that must be the fastest front two in the whole football league 😅

I wouldn't be against bringing Archer back if some deal could be struck with villa but at the same time I'd like to see us go and get a ball winning take no mercy Central midfielder and another striker that's not going to break the bank in wages because we do need both of these tbf.
 
My memory is a little hazy here but we signed Lath then continued to pursue Cannon. We agreed a loan deal for Coburn with Plymouth with the proviso that we signed Cannon or another first. Cannon didn't happen so we were left with Josh and Lath. I'd never considered Rogers or Greenwood to be out and out forwards by the way.
 
LessoftheLip said:
My memory is a little hazy here but we signed Lath then continued to pursue Cannon. We agreed a loan deal for Coburn with Plymouth with the proviso that we signed Cannon or another first. Cannon didn't happen so we were left with Josh and Lath. I'd never considered Rogers or Greenwood to be out and out forwards by the way.
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Our plan was to have all four of those players available cannon left or 10 behind lath, greenwood to cover several positions and rogers to cover all three behind the forward.

It took too long to get Lath over the line and Coburn wasn’t fit so we ended up with Roger’s cf at the start of the season
 
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our current line up of strikers is:
Latte Lath
Forss - can play wide or central. Injury prone? Bad season for injuries this season but previously ok. Might be angling for a move away. Into last two years of contract.
Coburn- central only fairly inexperienced, injury prone over last two seasons
Nkrumah - seems to have disappeared
Finch - very inexperienced, may be able to play wide.

If Forss can stay fit and doesn't want away then he's still the most clinical finisher at the club. Good pressing but lacks Latte Lath's pace and aerial ability. People will say that Carrick doesn't want to play Forss centrally but that's how he started off until Jones need replacing and he did eventually move him back centrally until he got injured.

Given that money isn't unlimited, another player around Forss's standard seems to be needed. Cannon is an obvious choice if he really can play deeper and we can probably get him on loan or loan to buy. Right now, Forss is probably better but Cannon does have plenty of room to develop.

We could look at a very young loan like Divin Mubama but really he would be replacing Coburn or Finch as 3rd choice centre forward. Maybe ok to take a punt on a free transfer then loan Coburn out but if Coburn can stay fit why not use him. We had a good spell with him leading the line and he seemed to be really improving before his injury slowed him down.

Coburn is more experienced at the Championship level than Cannon and arguably has a better record.
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Bruce said:
our current line up of strikers is:
Latte Lath
Forss - can play wide or central. Injury prone? Bad season for injuries this season but previously ok. Might be angling for a move away. Into last two years of contract.
Coburn- central only fairly inexperienced, injury prone over last two seasons
Nkrumah - seems to have disappeared
Finch - very inexperienced, may be able to play wide.

If Forss can stay fit and doesn't want away then he's still the most clinical finisher at the club. Good pressing but lacks Latte Lath's pace and aerial ability. People will say that Carrick doesn't want to play Forss centrally but that's how he started off until Jones need replacing and he did eventually move him back centrally until he got injured.

Given that money isn't unlimited, another player around Forss's standard seems to be needed. Cannon is an obvious choice if he really can play deeper and we can probably get him on loan or loan to buy. Right now, Forss is probably better but Cannon does have plenty of room to develop.

We could look at a very young loan like Divin Mubama but really he would be replacing Coburn or Finch as 3rd choice centre forward. Maybe ok to take a punt on a free transfer then loan Coburn out but if Coburn can stay fit why not use him. We had a good spell with him leading the line and he seemed to be really improving before his injury slowed him down.

Coburn is more experienced at the Championship level than Cannon and arguably has a better record.
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I'd send Nkrumah and Finch out on loan - It seems like Ajay Matthews has already overtaken them in the youth team, and we might be signing Cheick Kone for the youth team too.

Nkrumah will be 21 this year so it could be his last chance of making it here before being sold on (like Cal Kavanagh).

I'd replace them with a more proven lower league striker who can be on the fringes of the first team / U21 - someone like Daniel Kanu or Freddie Draper.

Sinclair Armstrong would also be an option on a free transfer - contract expiring at QPR - 20 years old - 3 goals 3 assists this season.

I'd then sign a RW to replace Forss - Tyler Goodhram - and put Forss as our backup ST.

Latte Lath / Forss / Coburn / Armstrong /Kanu
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
I think it's unrealistic to expect ELL to play every game was a lone striker, more so given the way we play under Carrick.

You really need to two quality no.9's, they'll both get plenty of games.
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Don't you remember the dark days when we had Hasselbaink, Viduka, Yakubu, Job, Nemeth and Maccarone.

Or even the season we had Beck, Branca, Armstrong and Ricard.

Terrible times.

I do worry about the logic of some fans at times. "we need another striker who is good but he can't be too good because it might upset the good one we already have". 🤯

I accept we shouldn't be blowing our entire budget on one either, but I'd say it was very unlikely the club would choose to do that. If we are genuinely in for Archer a loan would seem the most likely way it would happen anyway. And it would be a great signing.
 
Bruce said:
Latte Lath
Forss - can play wide or central. Injury prone? Bad season for injuries this season but previously ok. Might be angling for a move away. Into last two years of contract.
Coburn- central only fairly inexperienced, injury prone over last two seasons
Nkrumah - seems to have disappeared
Finch - very inexperienced, may be able to play wide.
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lath is our first choice number 9, he can do a job as a wide player. But really he will be happiest up top. He's ready made as a goalscorer in this league. Has scored from that position against the best teams and defenders in this league and given them a torrid time.

Forss, probably the best finisher at the club, maybe Carrick thinks he hasn't got the speed or dynamic movement to play against the top defenders at this level as a CF. Offers lots of goals from the wide position though, in fact, a scoring rate comparible to a very decent CF but from teh right wing.

Coburn, this year will have held back his development a little. He's got ability, a really good finisher, and hold up play is ok, but, he can't lead a press when out of possession and that is a key part of our game. If we get a backup CF, I wouldn't be surprised to see Finch and/or Matthews as 3rd choice CF and Coburn out on loan to a champo side. We'll get a good loan fee, he'll get some needed experience.

Nkrumah, he's a project, been out on loan. he's probably got 6 months to step up a little though.

Finch yes, he can play in any of the three roles behind the striker.

Matthews, lacks experience but huge potential
 
You wouldn't get 50 goals in a season out of Archer and LL because they are both central strikers and neither look like they could do a job as a winger/wide forward

We don't play 4-4-2 for the same reason no other clubs do, is because you just lose out tactically to every other team who plays with a 3 man midfield, so forget the idea
just play them both together and they will score xxxx because we would be overun in most games and thats not how football works
 
festa5 said:
Don't you remember the dark days when we had Hasselbaink, Viduka, Yakubu, Job, Nemeth and Maccarone.

Or even the season we had Beck, Branca, Armstrong and Ricard.

Terrible times.

I do worry about the logic of some fans at times. "we need another striker who is good but he can't be too good because it might upset the good one we already have". 🤯

I accept we shouldn't be blowing our entire budget on one either, but I'd say it was very unlikely the club would choose to do that. If we are genuinely in for Archer a loan would seem the most likely way it would happen anyway. And it would be a great signing.
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The only season we owned all 6 of those players - Nemeth played less than 200 league minutes - and Job was loaned out to Al-Ittihad 🤯

Yakubu scored 13 league goals that season, Hasselbaink 10, Viduka 7 and Maccarone 2.

I think we can all agree that Latte Lath has the potential to be a 20-25 goal striker next season.

We're not going to switch to playing 2 up front, so bringing in a striker like Archer and giving him 50% of Latte Lath's playing time, only takes away 50% of Latte Lath's goals.

We need a striker to come off the bench - play a few games here and there if Lath needs resting - A backup striker to compliment the striker we already have.

We didn't rotate Akpom - Coventry didn't rotate Gyokeres - Blackburn haven't rotated Szmodics (he's missed 2 games all season) - Why do we need to?
 
festa5 said:
Don't you remember the dark days when we had Hasselbaink, Viduka, Yakubu, Job, Nemeth and Maccarone.

Or even the season we had Beck, Branca, Armstrong and Ricard.

Terrible times.

I do worry about the logic of some fans at times. "we need another striker who is good but he can't be too good because it might upset the good one we already have". 🤯

I accept we shouldn't be blowing our entire budget on one either, but I'd say it was very unlikely the club would choose to do that. If we are genuinely in for Archer a loan would seem the most likely way it would happen anyway. And it would be a great signing.
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100%

Having two high quality striker options is essential I think, more than any other area of the pitch.

ELL has been fantastic since his return from injury, but it's impossible for him to keep that up for a whole season.
 
Ash88 said:
The only season we owned all 6 of those players - Nemeth played less than 200 league minutes - and Job was loaned out to Al-Ittihad 🤯

Yakubu scored 13 league goals that season, Hasselbaink 10, Viduka 7 and Maccarone 2.

I think we can all agree that Latte Lath has the potential to be a 20-25 goal striker next season.

We're not going to switch to playing 2 up front, so bringing in a striker like Archer and giving him 50% of Latte Lath's playing time, only takes away 50% of Latte Lath's goals.

We need a striker to come off the bench - play a few games here and there if Lath needs resting - A backup striker to compliment the striker we already have.

We didn't rotate Akpom - Coventry didn't rotate Gyokeres - Blackburn haven't rotated Szmodics (he's missed 2 games all season) - Why do we need to?
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You don't need to if you want to gamble on his fitness and his form.
But a season is played over 46 games. It's more than likely that he will pick up at least a niggle at some point and worst case scenario he picks up a a bad one.

You are also gambling on his form. He's been great for 12 games. Is that a purple patch or is that his true form? Who knows?

Two quality striker are essential. I can't believe anyone come out of this season and think anything different.
 
Ash88 said:
The only season we owned all 6 of those players - Nemeth played less than 200 league minutes - and Job was loaned out to Al-Ittihad 🤯

Yakubu scored 13 league goals that season, Hasselbaink 10, Viduka 7 and Maccarone 2.

I think we can all agree that Latte Lath has the potential to be a 20-25 goal striker next season.

We're not going to switch to playing 2 up front, so bringing in a striker like Archer and giving him 50% of Latte Lath's playing time, only takes away 50% of Latte Lath's goals.

We need a striker to come off the bench - play a few games here and there if Lath needs resting - A backup striker to compliment the striker we already have.

We didn't rotate Akpom - Coventry didn't rotate Gyokeres - Blackburn haven't rotated Szmodics (he's missed 2 games all season) - Why do we need to?
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Ideally we want a high quality backup striker that is comfortable playing a secondary role such as a 10 or winger.
 
Ash88 said:
The only season we owned all 6 of those players - Nemeth played less than 200 league minutes - and Job was loaned out to Al-Ittihad 🤯

Yakubu scored 13 league goals that season, Hasselbaink 10, Viduka 7 and Maccarone 2.

I think we can all agree that Latte Lath has the potential to be a 20-25 goal striker next season.

We're not going to switch to playing 2 up front, so bringing in a striker like Archer and giving him 50% of Latte Lath's playing time, only takes away 50% of Latte Lath's goals.

We need a striker to come off the bench - play a few games here and there if Lath needs resting - A backup striker to compliment the striker we already have.

We didn't rotate Akpom - Coventry didn't rotate Gyokeres - Blackburn haven't rotated Szmodics (he's missed 2 games all season) - Why do we need to?
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No we didn't rotate Akpom. And look what happened when Coventry crocked him in the second leg. We lost any attacking threat.

What happened when Bamford got injured towards the end of the play-off final season? Toothless in the final.

You can get away with only one top quality striker if you're lucky.

It's also hard to get hold of two, which is probably the more likely reason a lot of sides tend to only have one if that.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't try or should be turning it down if you have the chance. And it shouldn't be about cover anyway. Competition for places is what you want.

You try and sign the best players you can within your budget. Not intentionally aiming for weaker players than your starting 11.

In fact we should be trying to find a striker better than Lath. It's just very unlikely. But you wouldn't turn it down if one became available.
 
festa5 said:
No we didn't rotate Akpom. And look what happened when Coventry crocked him in the second leg. We lost any attacking threat.

What happened when Bamford got injured towards the end of the play-off final season? Toothless in the final.
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excellent points. There are of course many ways to do this. Bring in an experienced old head, that is a team player personality, so will sit on the bench

Bring in someone of similar ability/age to Lath, let them fight it out and take the work load from each other

Bring in a similar age, but different type of striker, to mix it up depending who we play

Bring in a highly talented 19-22 year old who is unlikely to be playing week in, week out anyway, and build him up to be the replacement to Lath eventually.

Bring in a CF, who often plays deeper or out wide and play one out of position
 
festa5 said:
No we didn't rotate Akpom. And look what happened when Coventry crocked him in the second leg. We lost any attacking threat.

What happened when Bamford got injured towards the end of the play-off final season? Toothless in the final.
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What you're describing is the need for a good quality backup player - which is exactly what I'm describing too.
 
I agree that ELL is a better player and Archer would be too similar in style. What we need is an upgrade on Coburn surely? Someone with physicality, height and less injury prone
 
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