Banning the Palestinian flag

BoroMart said:
Those 5 words right there, that’s the truth at the heart of this. Any system of governance devised totally or partially on a personal belief system will always treat those with a conflicting belief terribly.
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Spot on sir. And that belief system may also be non-theistic (though a rarer beast, admittedly).
 
I cant allow others their utter fantasy whilst the Zionist State deliberately murders innocent women and children in Gaza and at the same time it continues to kill innocent Palestinians in the West Bank.

Im not an expert and Ive mentioned it before: I`ve been to Palestine and witnessed first hand Apartheid. Those who deny its existence are either ignorant of history, lying to themselves or apologists for the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Christians, Muslims and Jews:

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The USA is still sending spare vehicle parts, heavy weaponry and bombs to load on to its Fighter jets which the Zionist State is using to eliminate the Palestinians. This is the epitomy of settler colonialism, deeply rooted in European and North American history. This is America`s war - which it will lose. This is their "solution"to the "palestinian problem". The Israeli "Government" is in effect a Military Council [go check its members, their history and proclomations]. They believe the Palestinians are savages, second-class citizens, beasts, animals. The "Two State Solution" is dead. Abbas and the Palestinian Authority [Israeli puppets] have lost all credibility and have no power in the occupied territories.

A Palestinian child is murdered every 15 minutes in Gaza by American Bombs delivered by American made Aircraft piloted by those trained by the USA. Meanwhile, in UK. Elbeit Systems provides jobs for our countrymen to manufacture drones to murder Palestinians. We need to take direct action to disable the export of arms and technology to the Zionist state. The USA provides the passport to kill with impunity.

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Only economic and financial measures will effect the Israeli "economy". As a country it isnt "economic" without the hand-outs of bombs, bullets and USA tax-dollars. Whilst many North Americans have little or no healthcare, low wages, poor housing and struggle to get by, their corrupt politicians do buisiness for the likes of BAE systems, Boeing and Raytheon by paying to shore up the apartheid State.

Only regime change in Israel will stop the murder and slaughter of Palestinians, Christians, Muslims, Torah Jews and non-Zionists. The hand(s) that feed its blood lust and taste for murder must be broken – including Britain and France, who are actively providing the fuel of genocide in the Gaza concentration camp.

The smear"anti-semitic" has been used continually to silence criticism of the apartheid state - but its worn thin and the lies and reality have become exposed bare by whats happening right now. The murderous militarist state didnt happen "in a vacuum" - its been in force at least since 1948 - born out of massacres of native Palestinians by the Stern Gang and Ben Goron. Zionism is an ethno-nationalist supremacist ideology, used to protect colonialism and its brutality. As the True-Torah Jews keep asserting: Zionism is not Judaism. Zionism uses the guilt cloak of Judaism by weaponising the Holocaust to protect its brutality, murder, occupation and denial of Palestine, its culture and its people.
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Zionism is anti-semitic, making Jews and Muslims more vulnerable to racists, fascists, dictators and authoritarian regimes. Some of Zionisms biggest supporters are racists, ethno nationists and anti-semitic countries like Hungary. Israel has fostered relationships with tyrants and murdereous regimes, like Saudi Arabia and other undemocratic Middle-East states.
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Israeli extremist National Security Minister has honoured Israeli soldiers who have killed Palestians and supports the forcable removal of Palestinians from their homeland.

The effect of Israels deliberate killing of innocent civilians [by their thousands] is spreading far and wide: since the "revolution" in Egypt, the pro-USA President has banned any public demonstrations in Tahir Square - yesterday, hundreds broke down the barriers, carried Palestinian flags and symultaneously formed a demonstration. They were met with police violence and soldiers, but they kept coming. Millions of Palestinians who fled to Jordan from Zionist terror have been demonstrating in their thousands and defied a ban by the King. They have demonstrated again and this is creating splits and fizures in the Arab world. USA-back military in Lebanon was driven into chaos as pro-freedom protesters attempted to storm the US Embassy.
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US Embasy on fire behind its security gates in Beirut [18th October]

Bear in mind that many in Southern Lebanon are Palestinians driven off their land by Israel. Predictably, Pakistan has moved to support the Palestinians against their mass murder, but more significantly, in India there is a backlash against Modi`s Hindu Nationalist Government, which has seen more and more attacks by the state on non-hindus. Pro-democracy groups have taken to the streets in their thousands to support freedom for the Palestinians, only to be met by extreme violence from the Indian Military and Police. They were well taught by the British Empire - which trademark they still carry today. In Sarayevo, hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets in a way not known since the "Bosnian" war. Sarayevo has a wide cultural influence in the Balkan region which extends as far as Ukraine.
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Yesterday, at the United Nations, the Kuwait representative told the Israeli representative to “take your bag and leave”. He accused Israel of genocide and murder, of war crimes and deliberate killing of innocent women and children. The Kuwaiti raised his tone and was met with loud applause and a standing ovation as the Zionist rep picked up his bag and left the United Nations arena. That should be permanent.

The USA has closed its Consulate in Turkey and Israel has advised its citizens to leave Turkey. Turkey has had "cordial" relations with Israel previously, but this cordiallity has fallen apart due to Israels continuing murder in Gaza.

We should not ignore the potential consequences for our own country, who`s politicians and military have been openly backing the Israeli state, using the licence to kill by supporting "Israels right to defend itself". Its been murdering others with impunity for decades, so what we see happening now around the world hasnt happened "in a vacuum" - it is a consequence of murder, occupation, torture, daily muder of innocent Palestinians, including children and attrocities which never get a sentence on the oligarch-owned "Western" media. Palestinian lives didnt matter and the Zionist State thought it could continue military rule, blood lust and follow its agenda of ethnic cleansing - until now.

The "ground offensive" allegedly designed to "destroy Hamas" is in fact the tool to murder and force out the two million people in Gaza, remove them from Israel and force them into other countries, so the Zionist project can continue its complete colonisation of a foreign land.​
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Militarily, this presents a problem: in a densley populated strip of land like Gaza, tanks alone wont achieve what Israel claims are its objective. With the vast number of Israeli Military now being outnumbered with reservists - they are stretched over the border to the north with Lebanon, on the Golan Heights in the land stolen from Syria and then Gaza. The Americans have sent their "Delta Force" to help Israel infiltrate Gaza to facilitate more murder of innocent civilians. But the question is - if Israel thinks it can eradicate Gaza, its soldiers will have to fight foot by foot, door to door, house by house, floor by floor, against a much better trained force who know Gazza like the back of their hands. It will come down to hand-to-hand contact, of which the Israeli military are totally unfamiliar with: unlike in the West Bank where they empower armed illgal settlers to murder Palestinians, steal their lands and demolish Palestinian homes as Israeli soldiers watch on: those soldiers arent going to have protection of the state. In Gaza, they wont be able to call in air-cover, because that will mean they will be calling in their own deaths. Bombing innocent unarmed civilians is a cowards way of fighting a battle. On the deck, the majority "reserve" forces wont be as effective as regular soldiers and many will come out of the rubble wrapped in body bags.

The British Military have sent high-tech reconnaisance aircraft and tech to collect intelligence from above the strip, but wont be of any use in confined areas. It wont be able to distinguish between Zionist and Palestinian Forces. It wont stop the Fighting in the worlds most densley populated Built-Up area. Within such a scenario, Israel and its Military Council will be the losers. It cares little more for the death of its own people than it does the Palestinians and is prepared to sacrifice the lives of anyone to save itself from facing its own war crimes and murder. Like a capyured ferocious dog, it will bear its fangs, but ultimately it knows it will face its inevitable fate.
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"Western" leaders complicit in Genocide - give the green light to Israel to commit murder whilst paying lip service to "International Law" and "The right to self defence". The Palestinians have been interned and occupied since 1948, yet they are ignored and treated as unpeople - without a voice or a right to defend their own land.

During this Western – Backed murder, a Child in Gaza dies every 15 minutes. Whilst we sleep, the bodies pile up, parents are writing their childrens names on their arms in case they are killed by Israels bombs. Many, are still missing under the rubble and those who are dead are wrapped in white shrouds and placed in long pits, exposed to the sun, waiting to be buried.

Israel is not a Jewish State. It is a Zionist Nationalist Colonial Supremacist State. Israel does not represent the Jews. It represents complete contempt for judaism. The Torah Jews have the last word:

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Pinkers said:
The death of civilians is always tragic. However I have little sympathy for the terrorists that surround Israel. The history is long and complex, and Israel has done wrong at times, but it has also bent over backwards on numerous occasions to accommodate their demands, and the terrorists have consistently thrown concessions back in their faces, then immediately followed up with violence against civilians. The idea that any of these terrorists want peace simply does not fit with the evidence. They do not want peace, and they could not have been clearer about that in what they have said and done. They have been very clear about what they want, which is the total destruction of Israel and the Jewish people. Hamas has founding documents that state their genocidal aims. I am sick of the spineless BBC failing to call them what they are. Genocide is the end game for Hamas, who have no more 'political' legitimacy than Isis, or Hitler. The level of depravity of the attacks on Israel this month demonstrate how evil they are.

For those who are interested, some history:
The land supposedly in question has been Israeli since Moses wandered in there 1300 years before the birth of Christ. If you look at the ancient maps, practically the whole territory is divided between the Kingdom of Israel and the Davidic Kingdom of Judah, i.e. all the twelve tribes of Israel. The Jews were invaded and exiled by Assyrians and Babylonians then returned around 500BC when they rebuilt the temple for the first time. Then they were invaded by the Romans. The Jews rebelled about 130AD. The name 'Palestine' didn't exist until then, 1200 years after the Jewish Kingdoms were established, and was named 'Palestine' by the Romans as an insult to Jews precisely because the land was considered to be Jewish ancestral land. Note that Islam hasn't even been founded yet, and won't be founded until 636AD which is about when Arabs first invade and settle in Israel. In 1099 - 1291 the Crusaders take the land. Then Muslims rule for about 200 years. They are ousted by the Ottomans in the early 1500's who rule until the end of WW1. A large Jewish population remains in Israel throughout this time, with many also being exiled at various points. So at worst, the Jews have an equal claim on their own land. So there's that.

Now the modern history...because of anti-semitism after WW1, it's decided that the Jews really need a homeland. They are promised all of modern Israel and modern Jordan by the (British) Balfour declaration. Meanwhile there are large Arab pogroms of Jews in Jerusalem, (yes, Hitler didn't invent them), for praying at the Western wall. Which their ancestors built. More anti-Jewish riots, murders and pogroms for a decade, until the Brits have had enough and create a partitioned state in 1937 to appease the constant Arab anti-semitism and violence. By 1939 millions of Jews want to move home because of rampant anti-semitism in Europe, but the Brits restrict it because of tensions with the Arabs.

WW2. Arab leaders meet with Hitler to seek and endorse 'the final solution'. Post WW2, and 9 million exterminated Jews later, the Brits want out and the UN takes over and partitions 'Palestine' offering the Jews not much (i.e. the Negev desert and a bit more land) as Jerusalem and most of the surrounding areas are internationally controlled. The Jews accept, but the Arabs continue to attack and kill them. Israel finally declares independence in 1948. It's founding documents invite Arabs in the area to stay and be equal citizens. All the Arabic states (Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi) around Israel declare war. Yes, we're 4 years out from the holocaust, but they haven't got the memo and remain rabidly racist against the Jewish people. Somehow the Jews retain the small areas that they have, except Jerusalem. The PLO (a terrorist group) is founded shortly afterwards, (presumably named the PLO in order to pretend that a Palestinian state exists and needs to be 'liberated' in much the same way 'the people's democratic Republic of North Korea' is neither for the people, nor democratic, nor a Republic).

1967 and the six day war: All the Arab states around mobilise to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, but Israel sees it coming. They attack first and take the Golan heights, the Sinai desert, the Gaza strip, Judaea, Sumeria and the old city of Jerusalem. UN calls for negotiations. Israel gradually hands parts back, in return the Arabs reiterate their '3 No's'. No peace, No recognition, No negotiations, only the total destruction of Israel is acceptable. 1973 Yom Kippur war: (holiest day in the jewish calendar) Arabs attack again, Israel again defends (and slightly enlarges) it's borders.

1979 Camp David agreement: Israel agrees peace with Egypt in exchange for the Sinai desert being returned to Egypt. Egyptian president is then assassinated for agreeing peace with Israel. 1982 - Jordan kicks out the terrorist PLO into Lebanon who (naturally) start firing rockets at Israel. Israel defends itself, then occupies Lebanon, and again later hands the territory back to the terrorists who continue to attack Israel.

1987-1991 loads more riots and terrorism from 'Palestinians'. HW Bush/Clinton gets Israel to negotiate with mass murdering terrorist Arafat. All Arafat has to do is recognise Israel's right to exist and stop the terrorism. Total bust, more terrorism. 1998: Netinyahu offers concessions including self-governance to the Palestinian areas, just leave Israel alone. But, No, No, No, more terrorism. 2000: Israel offers control of temple mount (built/rebuilt 3 times by Jews over a period of 1500 years before Islam even existed) to Palestine, with recognition Jews can go there, also offers governance of Gaza, Judaea and Sumeria (i.e. a large Palestinian state. But, no, no, no, more terrorism).

2004: Arafat dies and is replaced by Abbas (who wrote his doctoral dissertation on denying the holocaust). The Jews remove Jewish settlements and people from Gaza and hand it to Palestinians who immediately burn it all down, then hold an election where ....SURPRISE....Hamas terrorists are 'elected'. Israel offers Judaea and Sumeria again, but, No, No, No we'll have another war in Gaza instead. An area Israel obviously does not want. Israel shuts it down. And repeat.

Obama era: He tries to cuddle up to Iran. Iran uses Obama's money to spread terrorism all over the middle east (e.g. the proxy war with Saudi in Yemen). As a result Saudi, Egypt, UAE, Bahrain and others start to cooperate with Israel as they are more palatable than Iran.

Trump era: US backs Israel on ownership of Jerusalem/Golan heights etc and supports ties between Israel/Saudi and the Saudi satellites. US removes funding from all the anti-semite groups.

Biden era: Reinstates aid to the anti-semite terrorist groups (Hamas, 15 years in power now remember, continue to use it buy rockets instead of for economic development - Israel still controls the water and power supply (for free) because Hamas cannot be trusted with it). Biden also starts cosying up to Iran again. So big surprise, Hamas is emboldened to attack Israel, yet again.

Throughout all this time, Israel has remained a functioning democracy with equal rights for its residents whether Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Israeli, Palestinian etc. (Oh, except that it doesn't control it's most holy sites of course, although it's claim on them is the most historic).

Any decent person is repulsed by the deaths of innocent civilians that we see in the media, the problem is that being a decent person just does not extend to members of Hamas. They do not care, which is why, even when warned in advance, they have consistently refused to move children out of the line of fire because they see their death as a fair price for some bad publicity for Israel. The bottom line is that if Israel laid its weapons down today it would be annihilated, but if Hamas laid them down, the Palestinians would be left alone to build the decent future Hamas denies them.

Westerners waving Palestinian flags should learn some history.
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We ignor the lessons of history at our peril.
But first, learn the "history".
 
r00fie1 said:
Zionism uses the guilt cloak of Judaism by weaponising the Holocaust to protect its brutality, murder, occupation and denial of Palestine, its culture and its people.
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There was an interesting column in the Guardian by by an Israeli historian Raz Segal addressing this subject but of course the Twitter Zionists were straight out with their conspiracy theories to discredit him with takes like like ...this is what they do. they get Jews to write these things to make it look ok. They don't explain who they are.

Many people have been taken in by the Zionist movement who along with neoliberals and snout-in-the -trough politicians conspired to deprive us of the transformative government that this country needs and deserves, by demonising Jeremy Corbyn but of course he would have been harder on Israel. When I look at what has happened to this country - the corruption, the lies, they incompetence surrounding the covid epidemic - since 2017 and I imagine what it could have been like, I despair. The problem is though, that people in the country and on this site, are reluctant to admit that they were conned and so instead double down on their demonisation of the man whilst claiming that a vote for the least worst option is our only option. .

Even immediately after the Hamas attack when the leaders of the western world were queueing up to defend Israel's right to defend itself, Corbyn was being painted as being on the wrong side of history once again. Now, a couple of weeks later people like Starmer are trying desperately to find the right pitch without conceding that they were wrong, but they are moving closer to Corbyn's positioning. He was of course, right all along.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Even immediately after the Hamas attack when the leaders of the western world were queueing up to defend Israel's right to defend itself, Corbyn was being painted as being on the wrong side of history once again. Now, a couple of weeks later people like Starmer are trying desperately to find the right pitch without conceding that they were wrong, but they are moving closer to Corbyn's positioning. He was of course, right all along.
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At least Starmer is not openly and unequivocally pro-Israeli like the current government. He is clearly trying to make sure that Israel-palestine is not an election issue, because, of course the tories so desperately want the looming election to be about immigrants, Israel and ULEZ, hoping that every other issue, failure and corruption is somehow forgotten.
 
BoroMart said:
At least Starmer is not openly and unequivocally pro-Israeli like the current government. He is clearly trying to make sure that Israel-palestine is not an election issue, because, of course the tories so desperately want the looming election to be about immigrants, Israel and ULEZ, hoping that every other issue, failure and corruption is somehow forgotten.
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The Tories are certainly trying to make it about immigration, that's why they're allowing the migrant crisis to pile up whilst blaming lefty lawyers and snowflakes.
 
iamborome said:
Keir "I am a Zionist without qualification" Starmer?
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You type the words, but that doesn't reflect the reality of what he said. It's either ignorance or prejudice. I don't mean ignorance as an insult, purely that you have not got awareness, and thus you have a learning opportunity. The following is not Zionism at all, and are Starmers words:

" this operation can and must be done within international law. We democracies know that all human life is equal. Innocent lives must be protected. "

"So there must now be clear humanitarian corridors within Gaza for those escaping violence. Civilians must not be targeted. "

"And where Palestinians are forced to flee, they must not be permanently displaced from their homes. International law is clear. "

"It also means basic services including water, electricity, and the fuel needed for it, cannot be denied. ......cannot and will not close our eyes to their suffering. Gaza is now a humanitarian emergency. There is not enough food. Clean water is running out. Hospitals are going without medicine and electricity. People starving and reduced to drinking contaminated filth. Babies lying in incubators that could switch off at any moment. "

"And a future for the Palestinian people, where they and their children enjoy the freedoms and opportunities that we take for granted.......dignity and justice of a Palestinian state, alongside a safe and secure Israel.........too long, we have allowed welcome progress in improving relations between Israel and her neighbours, to sit without any progress on a future for Palestine and its people."
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
There was an interesting column in the Guardian by by an Israeli historian Raz Segal addressing this subject but of course the Twitter Zionists were straight out with their conspiracy theories to discredit him with takes like like ...this is what they do. they get Jews to write these things to make it look ok. They don't explain who they are.

Many people have been taken in by the Zionist movement who along with neoliberals and snout-in-the -trough politicians conspired to deprive us of the transformative government that this country needs and deserves, by demonising Jeremy Corbyn but of course he would have been harder on Israel. When I look at what has happened to this country - the corruption, the lies, they incompetence surrounding the covid epidemic - since 2017 and I imagine what it could have been like, I despair. The problem is though, that people in the country and on this site, are reluctant to admit that they were conned and so instead double down on their demonisation of the man whilst claiming that a vote for the least worst option is our only option. .

Even immediately after the Hamas attack when the leaders of the western world were queueing up to defend Israel's right to defend itself, Corbyn was being painted as being on the wrong side of history once again. Now, a couple of weeks later people like Starmer are trying desperately to find the right pitch without conceding that they were wrong, but they are moving closer to Corbyn's positioning. He was of course, right all along.
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The stark reminder for me is the stonewall of silence by "Western Leaders" [?!] supporting slaughter. Without a hint of humanity. Their priorities are the profits of war, active backing of the colonial project and preserving the status quo.

This man is part of that complicity in murder:

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Zionism is about the protection of Isreal.
Don't know what you problem is with that.

Condemn Isreal for the horrors that are unfolding in Gaza by all means but don't tar the man with "complicity in murder" because he supports Zionism.

It makes you sound extremist.
 
zzzzz said:
Zionism is about the protection of Isreal.
Don't know what you problem is with that.

Condemn Isreal for the horrors that are unfolding in Gaza by all means but don't tar the man with "complicity in murder" because he supports Zionism.

It makes you sound extremist.
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Since when does protecting Israel involve bombing hospitals? Bombing schools? Making Doctors and surgeons perform surgeons with no light so they have to use the torches on their phones for light? Since when is pouring cement in Gazas water supply reasonable response? Or cutting off aid to 2.2 million people? Today they dug a mass grave for the hundreds of bodies found, and children were playing in the hole and they said "this is where we will die". This is a genocide, this is a war crime, this is absolutely and unequivocally wrong. Israel must be held accountable for their actions, and so should Hamas.
 
GibbosEmpire said:
Since when does protecting Israel involve bombing hospitals? Bombing schools? Making Doctors and surgeons perform surgeons with no light so they have to use the torches on their phones for light? Since when is pouring cement in Gazas water supply reasonable response? Or cutting off aid to 2.2 million people? Today they dug a mass grave for the hundreds of bodies found, and children were playing in the hole and they said "this is where we will die". This is a genocide, this is a war crime, this is absolutely and unequivocally wrong. Israel must be held accountable for their actions, and so should Hamas.
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Again. Nobody has suggested any of that is in any way justified.
But why are you linking this to Zionism and what Starmer said?
Stop it.
 
r00fie1 said:
The stark reminder for me is the stonewall of silence by "Western Leaders" [?!] supporting slaughter. Without a hint of humanity. Their priorities are the profits of war, active backing of the colonial project and preserving the status quo.

This man is part of that complicity in murder:

View attachment 65887
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Needs full context rather than just a 5 word alleged quote, because the definition of Zionism that we are discussing on this thread are the opposite of what he said in parliament just the other day and are listed above
 
zzzzz said:
Zionism is about the protection of Isreal.
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Zionism predates Israel and has nothing to do with Judaism. Modern Zionists have no interest in the safety of Jews. This can be witnessed in their continuous conflation of Israel with Judaism ( if I know that this is against the rules then so do they) which means that all Jews are responsible for the crimes of Israel and therefore endangers Jews to the people who respond their rhetoric. This is their Raison d'etre and the more Jew hatred they can drum up, the stronger their cause.
 
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