Banning the Palestinian flag

BoroMart said:
Needs full context rather than just a 5 word alleged quote, because the definition of Zionism that we are discussing on this thread are the opposite of what he said in parliament just the other day and are listed above
Click to expand...
His problem was his initial response which was to back Israel fully and let's not forget that he declared himself a Zionist during the leadership election. His modified response is just his weathercock politics. He has been in trouble with muslim politicians and has been accused by a Mosque in South Wales of using them for a photo op and misrepresenting the mood of the meeting.

All in all he has handled himself terribly in these last couple of weeks.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Zionism predates Israel and has nothing to do with Judaism. Modern Zionists have no interest in the safety of Jews. This can be witnessed in their continuous conflation of Israel with Judaism ( if I know that this is against the rules then so do they) which means that all Jews are responsible for the crimes of Israel and therefore endangers Jews to the people who respond their rhetoric. This is their Raison d'etre and the more Jew hatred they can drum up, the stronger their cause.
Click to expand...
Again. Just your interpretation of it twisted to suit anti-zionist agenda.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
His problem was his initial response which was to back Israel fully and let's not forget that he declared himself a Zionist during the leadership election. His modified response is just his weathercock politics. He has been in trouble with muslim politicians and has been accused by a Mosque in South Wales of using them for a photo op and misrepresenting the mood of the meeting.

All in all he has handled himself terribly in these last couple of weeks.
Click to expand...
But not as terribly as Sunak flying over there to say he wants to see Israel win.

Almost all western politicians are in support of Israel to some degree or other and the optics of saying Israel should not defend itself is a vote loser.

As I said his message to parliament the other day was not too far misaligned with reality, it falls short of calling out some of the Israeli activity that has happened over the last week, but it does indicate that they have to stop which is ar more than any government officials are prepared to do. https://labour.org.uk/updates/press...rs-statement-to-the-commons-on-israel-gaza-2/
 
BoroMart said:
But not as terribly as Sunak flying over there to say he wants to see Israel win.

Almost all western politicians are in support of Israel to some degree or other and the optics of saying Israel should not defend itself is a vote loser.

As I said his message to parliament the other day was not too far misaligned with reality, it falls short of calling out some of the Israeli activity that has happened over the last week, but it does indicate that they have to stop which is ar more than any government officials are prepared to do. https://labour.org.uk/updates/press...rs-statement-to-the-commons-on-israel-gaza-2/
Click to expand...
Oh no, that was the worst take ever.
 
zzzzz said:
Again. Just your interpretation of it twisted to suit anti-zionist agenda.
Click to expand...
No it isn't. Prominent zionists including Jewish Chronicle journalists, and members of Jewish Labour Movement (members of which need not be Jewish or Labour) continually conflate zionism with Judaism. This is antisemitic according to the IHRA

They also claim to speak for all Jews.This is also antisemitic according to the IHRA. Why does an organisation which professes to have the safety of Jewish people as its aim, behave antisemitically with such regularity?


Screenshot 2023-10-27 at 13.49.47.png
 
Heidelboro said:
Of course it's complex, but the next time you hear an Israeli politician or commentator rant about the barbarism, horror and utter inexcusable acts of killing children, bear this in mind:

www.countingthekids.org

(apologies if this has already been posted on one of the other threads on this issue)
Click to expand...
I wonder what the count of dead Jewish children was in the holocaust, maybe a million or somewhere near that and six million in total.

I imagine this is why Israeli people now react like they do.

I don't agree that any civilians especially children on either side should have to suffer, but surely Hamas knew what the reaction would be after killing 1400 mainly civilians, or did they think by taking over two hundred hostages it would stop Israel's forces from responding?
 
redcarjock said:
Hamas knew what the reaction would be after killing 1400 mainly civilians, or did they think by taking over two hundred hostages it would stop Israel's forces from responding?
Click to expand...
Did the Israeli state not realise the reaction that Hamas would have to years of oppression and violence?

We can all play that game but it gets us nowhere
 
BoroMart said:
You type the words, but that doesn't reflect the reality of what he said. It's either ignorance or prejudice. I don't mean ignorance as an insult, purely that you have not got awareness, and thus you have a learning opportunity. The following is not Zionism at all, and are Starmers words:

" this operation can and must be done within international law. We democracies know that all human life is equal. Innocent lives must be protected. "

"So there must now be clear humanitarian corridors within Gaza for those escaping violence. Civilians must not be targeted. "

"And where Palestinians are forced to flee, they must not be permanently displaced from their homes. International law is clear. "

"It also means basic services including water, electricity, and the fuel needed for it, cannot be denied. ......cannot and will not close our eyes to their suffering. Gaza is now a humanitarian emergency. There is not enough food. Clean water is running out. Hospitals are going without medicine and electricity. People starving and reduced to drinking contaminated filth. Babies lying in incubators that could switch off at any moment. "

"And a future for the Palestinian people, where they and their children enjoy the freedoms and opportunities that we take for granted.......dignity and justice of a Palestinian state, alongside a safe and secure Israel.........too long, we have allowed welcome progress in improving relations between Israel and her neighbours, to sit without any progress on a future for Palestine and its people."
Click to expand...

These statements are meaningless. How can you talk about international law and not condemn the assault on Gaza as a breach of international law. How can you say it is Israel's right to cut off supplies of electricity, food and water, when this is a clear breach of international law. How, as a lawyer, can Starmer say that, in response to the carpet bombing of Gaza, that Israel has a right to defend itself when he knows that self defence is only justified when it is reasonable and proportionate. Please don't patronise me with your insuations about ignorance and awareness.
 
iamborome said:
These statements are meaningless. How can you talk about international law and not condemn the assault on Gaza as a breach of international law. How can you say it is Israel's right to cut off supplies of electricity, food and water, when this is a clear breach of international law. How, as a lawyer, can Starmer say that, in response to the carpet bombing of Gaza, that Israel has a right to defend itself when he knows that self defence is only justified when it is reasonable and proportionate. Please don't patronise me with your insuations about ignorance and awareness.
Click to expand...
I’m patronising no one, and ultimately the statement of a single opposition politician IS meaningless, it’s our PMs words that have power and he has supported the atrocities the Israelis are perpetuating. I’m stating that starmers comments are laced with allusions of “enough this has to stop”, which is a very different stance to the government patting Israel on the back and saying “finish them off”.

I gave you an opportunity learn something, I gave you starmers latest words, with the latest information. You chose to reject that opportunity to learn something, showing nothing but an entrenched position and prejudice. That’s your problem to deal with not mine. If you think you know all the information and no one can share some knew knowledge that’s your arrogance not mine. I’m comfortable with you being in that position, I hope you are not and maybe have a rethink, but I doubt it from your last response.

Has Starmer gone far enough, no, is his position changing, yes. It’s a fluid situation in Gaza and comments have to be in context of the facts at any given moment. Now the power has been illegally switched off, I doubt for a second that he will soften from his swinging away from Israeli support this week, in fact I think his next comments will be stronger. We shall see.
 
Last edited:
BoroMart said:
I’m patronising no one, and ultimately the statement of a single opposition politician IS meaningless, it’s our PMs words that have power and he has supported the atrocities the Israelis are perpetuating. I’m stating that starmers comments are laced with allusions of “enough this has to stop”, which is a very different stance to the government patting Israel on the back and saying “finish them off”.

I gave you an opportunity learn something, I gave you starmers latest words, with the latest information. You chose to reject that opportunity to learn something, showing nothing but an entrenched position and prejudice. That’s your problem to deal with not mine. If you think you know all the information and no one can share some knew knowledge that’s your arrogance not mine. I’m comfortable with you being in that position, I hope you are not and maybe have a rethink, but I doubt it from your last response.

Has Starmer gone far enough, no, is his position changing, yes. It’s a fluid situation in Gaza and comments have to be in context of the facts at any given moment. Now the power has been illegally switched off, I doubt for a second that he will soften from his swinging away from Israeli support this week, in fact I think his next comments will be stronger. We shall see.
Click to expand...
There you go again with your patronising "I gave you the chance to learn somthing" . All I have learned from this exchange is that you are an avid supported of Steir Karmer. You are also grasping at straws, the man can't even bring himself to support a cease fire
 
iamborome said:
There you go again with your patronising "I gave you the chance to learn somthing" . All I have learned from this exchange is that you are an avid supported of Steir Karmer. You are also grasping at straws, the man can't even bring himself to support a cease fire
Click to expand...
It’s not patronising to be taught something, it’s arrogant to think no one can teach you anything.

I’m not an avid supporter of Kier Starmer. You’ve learned nothing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top