Bit of perspective

Profound article and mirrors my experiences of the whole day, and the train home after the game.
Could not have put it better.
A bit off topic but I would also add that whoever made the final sign off for keeping the National Stadium in London (or even just at Brent) wants to be fully investigated. It took me over an hour to get from the stadium to the tube station due to the crowds on Wembley Way. Another 20 minutes waiting for a train as they were rammed full but stood at the station without moving, and then with two stops to go to KX the train stopped at a station and said due to an incident they would not be moving until told to do so. 40 mins later it was still stationary, the heat was incredible and one lad passed out. A lot of the fans had got off (including me and my mate) and were walking the 30 mins or so to KX. I appreciate it may not have been the fault of the transport company but if we weren't moving then no other train behind us could get past so they were still thousands of fans on Wembley Way queuing to get home/hotels over two hours after the penalty shoot out. Absolute madness. This is never mentioned in the news or newspapers but the fans have to endure endless, sometimes senseless hours of frustration after a game but they still come back to see England.
 
Some interesting points, probably most I agree with Jonathan Liew, but not all.

Yes - We are living in a more privatised society, lock down has made it more so and its legacy (working from home etc). Yes - power is more centralised (by right and also he should have said left governments in the UK), Yes - less public space, there are more controls on marches now. Central Government Politicians of both right and left, have in some cases abused their power and paid lip service only to those they work for e.g Labour and Tory politicians were prosecuted and jailed in some cases for gross abuse of expenses. JL seemed to have ignored large music events which to me are much more numerous now than when I was 21.

The ability to express your emotions and feeling in public in large groups is happening, so I don't agree with JL on this, but a lot of the media appear to be under reporting it at present, including the Guardian. There was a Freedom march in London at the end of June with upto 1 million on it (according to people there), but how many people on here were aware? The media are selective in what they report and the emphasis they put on it. I only became aware of it by talking to friends on it. When you search you can find stories on it but its generally run as small news. I suspect they are frightened of being accused of spreading Covid19. I am not anti - lock down, but I respect the views of those who think differently or for their right to have appropriate news coverage for the size of their event.

Relating it to England games - I do feel young working class men are finding big changes in their lives and society, which some of these men are finding a struggle to cope with (evidence high suicide rates). I am not condoning aggression and violence in any way, but following England is giving them an outlet they seem attracted to. Possibly with England I think they find a lot of others in a similar position, more so that at club level. Personally I have only ever been to one England game live against Slovenia at the new Wembley. Most of the people around me were not English or Slovenians. I was near the half way line. The experience was not much different from a Boro game and sitting in the upper West Stand, but it was just a group game.

Certain England games can give men to chance to be macho for the day with a lot of other similar men not a right but an opportunity for them. It can be imitating for others and the men can show off in a group and be more macho in a group. People in mobs can feel more physically powerful. It can get ugly and tribal especially with alcohol. I don't condone this in any way. But I saw in London on Sunday. I posted this at the time.

What is interesting is why with the England national team it can get violent and aggressive quicker, but as we all know Boro fans (including women and children) were badly attacked in Rome by Italians and in Amsterdam by Dutch so football tribalism or just tribalism linked to violence is also not unique to working class men in England. Maybe one issue is that England's support is more working class, as middle class people tend to follow Rugby Union and there is a completely different atmosphere even when the crowd size is the same.

I would take issue with Jonathan Liew on Scottish fans, certainly in the past. The England v Scotland games @ Wembley in the late 1970s were marred by an almost invading army of young drunken Scottish men, some with Scottish flags daubed with the words Bannockburn (a Scottish military victory over the English in 1314!) . So much so this fixture was stopped because of it. At one game the pitch was completely invaded and the goals posts smashed up in an attempt for them to taken home to Scotland for souvenirs. Scotland may have changed slightly, but not radically since the late 1970s. As we can see in the photo is what I term aggressive behaviour. I think its at Wembley in 1977.

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Could not have put it better.
A bit off topic but I would also add that whoever made the final sign off for keeping the National Stadium in London (or even just at Brent) wants to be fully investigated. It took me over an hour to get from the stadium to the tube station due to the crowds on Wembley Way. Another 20 minutes waiting for a train as they were rammed full but stood at the station without moving, and then with two stops to go to KX the train stopped at a station and said due to an incident they would not be moving until told to do so. 40 mins later it was still stationary, the heat was incredible and one lad passed out. A lot of the fans had got off (including me and my mate) and were walking the 30 mins or so to KX. I appreciate it may not have been the fault of the transport company but if we weren't moving then no other train behind us could get past so they were still thousands of fans on Wembley Way queuing to get home/hotels over two hours after the penalty shoot out. Absolute madness. This is never mentioned in the news or newspapers but the fans have to endure endless, sometimes senseless hours of frustration after a game but they still come back to see England.
Cheers Ayresome for your observations - I was listening to BBC Radio 5 and Talk Sport yesterday and one of them went on about what a shambles it was getting to the Tube and away. How Wembley Stadium was not fit to host big events. I thought Wow - it cost £1000m and I paid some of that in directly through TV Subscriptions and tickets for FA Cup games, Play off final etc and probably will do for the next 20 years. In 1997 and 1998 I parked in Wembley town centre for 50p, but I think its all changed with the new Wembley and more people are forced to use the Tube.
 
Cheers Ayresome for your observations - I was listening to BBC Radio 5 and Talk Sport yesterday and one of them went on about what a shambles it was getting to the Tube and away. How Wembley Stadium was not fit to host big events. I thought Wow - it cost £1000m and I paid some of that in directly through TV Subscriptions and tickets for FA Cup games, Play off final etc and probably will do for the next 20 years. In 1997 and 1998 I parked in Wembley town centre for 50p, but I think its all changed with the new Wembley and more people are forced to use the Tube.
I heard some Mail journo being interviewed on 5 Live who said it took him and his elderly father-in-law until 3am to get back to their hotel because of the crowds on the tube and the traffic when they decided to use the bus. That said, I've been to a concert at the Stade de France in Paris and that was also a nightmare to get to and from from central Paris, being in quite a rough area called St Denis.
 
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