Boro players won't be taking the knee against Millwall

I agree with 1finny, what Warnock said didn’t ring true for me either, for the very reasons he gave.

Warnock also said he thought they would link arms with a banner or something like that, surely he knows what they intend to do, it becomes a gesture to be planned for, after all?
 
1finny said:
And you think it was an accident.

Just out of interest, what’s the issue here?

Warnock has come out with a statement.
I don’t believe it and have explained my reasons.
Others believe the statement
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You are accusing people of talking rubbish, being naive and bringing Warnock's political views into it. If you want to constantly see the worst in people thats your choice, I'd rather believe that people can have a counter view without being racist.

We might as well agree to disagree.
 
newyddion said:
Black Lives Matter: Where does 'taking a knee' come from? - BBC News

American Football quarterback Colin Kaepernick sat on the bench during the US national anthem to protest against police brutality and racism in a pre-season game on 26 August 2016.

Kaepernick said at the time: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of colour."

He discussed his motivations with Nate Boyer, a military veteran and former National Football League (NFL) player, who advised him to kneel because he thought it was more "respectful".

Kaepernick switched from sitting to kneeling on one knee on 1 September 2016, generating national media attention.

After seeing the scenes at Millwall and West Ham i'd be very tempted to break rank. It's alright saying that MFC foundation do a lot of work behind the scenes and Millwall do this that or the other. It was clear to 99% of football fans that the booing was motivated by a racist sentiment. It shouldn't lay at the feet of black athletes to take a stand either, these are human rights issues and it's very much a white problem as is a black one. The banners and the badges mean naff all if no action is taken. Take the knee, show some solidarity.
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It's a tricky one when you agree a "United approach". I can see why you'd do it, but what if some of the players actually would rather take the knee but feel they can't go against the team or the captain? Of course we're not privy to the conversations they've had as a group but I find it hard to believe every single one of them feel that not taking the knee is the right approach.

I respect anyone's decision to do it or not. But I do think it should be up to individuals and there shouldn't be pressure either way.

I'd want to do it and wouldn't be happy being asked not to.
 
festa5 said:
It's a tricky one when you agree a "United approach". I can see why you'd do it, but what if some of the players actually would rather take the knee but feel they can't go against the team or the captain? Of course we're not privy to the conversations they've had as a group but I find it hard to believe every single one of them feel that not taking the knee is the right approach.

I respect anyone's decision to do it or not. But I do think it should be up to individuals and there shouldn't be pressure either way.

I'd want to do it and wouldn't be happy being asked not to.
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I would imagine that in a dressing room with a bunch of footballers aged 18-35 the majority aren't particularly bothered either way and they just stick with the majority decision to support their team mates.
 
Gareth Southgate talking with Show Racism The Red Card (it is their 25th anniversary at the moment) speaking this week about Taking The Knee - why players do it and what it means.
On twitter - the actual video lasts 30 minutes but they have edited it to a one minute clip on twitter - talking about the impact of the gesture and also how there has been a positive reaction after the scenes last weekend.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1336727014745780224
 
1finny said:
And you think it was an accident.

Just out of interest, what’s the issue here?

Warnock has come out with a statement.
I don’t believe it and have explained my reasons.
Others believe the statement
Click to expand...

The main point to this discussion is the message that the knee is trying to send out. It is clear that some people have different interpretations of what it means and that isn't just Millwall fans.

The most important thing that should be happening is that everyone in football gets together and has a clear discussion on what it means and get everyone buying into it including fans.

That message needs to be put out there into the media and hammered home to everyone. While people believe (rightly or wrongly) that its political then this isn't going to unite anyone and it won't solve the problem its aiming to solve.

Its alright people on a message board saying that the gesture isn't political but that message needs to come from the players, managers, clubs and authorities.

This doesn't have to be left vs right, I think 99.99% of us want the same thing.

*I've just read Rob's post above, this is what I'm talking about*
 
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Uwefuchs said:
f you want to constantly see the worst in people thats your choice, I
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If you think about that - its a strange comment to make.
I don’t believe Warnock’s statement = I constantly see the worst in people?

Odd

I’m fine with disagreement, by the way.
I just prefer it not to be accompanied with judgements.
 
1finny said:
If you think about that - its a strange comment to make.
I don’t believe Warnock’s statement = I constantly see the worst in people?

Odd

I’m fine with disagreement, by the way.
I just prefer it not to be accompanied with judgements.
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Fair enough but the judgement needs to stop from people suggesting that anyone who is anti the knee is racist. This isn't helping anything.
 
fmttmadmin said:
If you boo - taking of the knee - you are bound to be thought of as racist. Let's face it.
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I'm not saying booing is the answer, I wouldn't have a problem with standing there in silence even if it was an issue that I didn't agree with. But you will know yourself though that football fans are not always the most articulate at expressing themselves.

What I'm saying is that if someone has it fixed in their head that the gesture is a political gesture then are they booing an anti-discrimination gesture or a political gesture?

Bringing something tribal like extreme left wing politics (which is how some view it) into a tribal football stadium has been met with a tribal response.

I'm actually trying to move past the Millwall thing and look at how we make the thing better.
 
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Uwefuchs said:
Fair enough but the judgement needs to stop from people suggesting that anyone who is anti the knee is racist. This isn't helping anything.
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Why would anyone be anti taking the knee? The black players who have stopped are doing so for very different reasons to those who are against it, or don't agree with our or who boo it.
 
Corco65 said:
Why would anyone be anti taking the knee? The black players who have stopped are doing so for very different reasons to those who are against it, or don't agree with our or who boo it.
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Because I've read comments from fans of multiple clubs who've said they associate the BLM cause with violent protests, with an ideal of defunding the police and wanting to deface or destroy historical monuments.

That belief might be completely wrong but it does exist.
 
Finny my original comment was just n=one of surprise that you would think there is some spin on the club message. I didn't intend it to turn into a bit of a bashing mate. I was just surprised.
 
Uwefuchs said:
I'm not saying booing is the answer, I don't see the problem with standing there in silence even if its someone I don't agree with. You will know yourself though that football fans are not always the most articulate at expressing themselves.

What I'm saying is that if someone has it fixed in their head that the gesture is a political gesture then are they booing an anti-discrimination gesture or a political gesture?

Bringing something tribal like extreme left wing politics (which is how some view it) into a tribal football stadium has been met with a tribal response.

I'm actually trying to move past the Millwall thing and look at how we make the thing better.
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It's simple they are booing because they don't agree with black lives matter as a positive affirmation. All the talk about it being political is made by white people to discredit it. Standing in silence is a non racist stance, try supporting it and clapping or cheering for a anti racist approach.

So what do you think the suffragettes and the tolpuddle martyrs were thought of when the establishment of the day wanted to keep the status quo, yes you got it political.

Black Lives Matter
 
Uwefuchs said:
Because I've read comments from fans of multiple clubs who've said they associate the BLM cause with violent protests, with an ideal of defunding the police and wanting to deface or destroy historical monuments.

That belief might be completely wrong but it does exist.
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BLM in the UK isn't the same as the USA movement, here it is more of the cause that 'Black Lives Matter', it's pretty easy to understand it really is, if you want to.
 
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