Boro players won't be taking the knee against Millwall

Laughing said:
Finny my original comment was just n=one of surprise that you would think there is some spin on the club message. I didn't intend it to turn into a bit of a bashing mate. I was just surprised.
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No worries at all from me fella.
There are many things we see on here that I, you and others disagree with.
There is also a lot of common ground around rooting out racism and bigotry - that’s worth more than the odd dust up.
 
Uwefuchs said:
I would imagine that in a dressing room with a bunch of footballers aged 18-35 the majority aren't particularly bothered either way and they just stick with the majority decision to support their team mates.
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Not sure if you're stereotyping them because of their age or their profession. Either way it's a hell of an assumption.

Britt clearly cares enough to have reached his own, perfectly reasonable, position on it. Why do you not think any of the others care?

Some won't, some will. But I'd probably expect footballers as a group would care more than average. They're more likely to be affected or know someone who is by racism and will almost certainly have witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.
 
festa5 said:
Not sure if you're stereotyping them because of their age or their profession. Either way it's a hell of an assumption.

Britt clearly cares enough to have reached his own, perfectly reasonable, position on it. Why do you not think any of the others care?

Some won't, some will. But I'd probably expect footballers as a group would care more than average. They're more likely to be affected or know someone who is by racism and will almost certainly have witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.
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Yeah maybe I am stereotyping, I might be completely wrong.

Edit - just to add I'm not saying that any of our players are likely to be against any anti-discrimination campaign. Just that my experience of young athletes is that many are not heavily invested in politics.
 
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Corco65 said:
Why would anyone be anti taking the knee? The black players who have stopped are doing so for very different reasons to those who are against it, or don't agree with our or who boo it.
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You asked me why anyone would be anti-taking the knee. I gave you reasons that people have given then you just rubbished them anyway. Why did you even ask?

I've read your responses on a couple of threads and your view of people and the world is as closed and narrow minded as the people you detest. I'm not going to call you as bad as them because you seem to be coming from a position of rooting out racism where the people at the opposite end of the spectrum are racist scum.

But you have a very simplistic view of the situation, either people are for the gesture or they are racist. Could it not be the case that people have a different interpretation of the gesture even if its misguided? Or maybe you can mind read everyone in this country.
 
Corco65 said:
BLM in the UK isn't the same as the USA movement, here it is more of the cause that 'Black Lives Matter', it's pretty easy to understand it really is, if you want to.
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So why are people still perpetuating the same stuff about the political element in the movement? This isn't just football fans on message boards I've heard it in the media as well.

Are they all racist as well?
 
Uwefuchs said:
So why are people still perpetuating the same stuff about the political element in the movement? This isn't just football fans on message boards I've heard it in the media as well.

Are they all racist as well?
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I've already answered that.
 
Uwefuchs said:
You asked me why anyone would be anti-taking the knee. I gave you reasons that people have given then you just rubbished them anyway. Why did you even ask?

I've read your responses on a couple of threads and your view of people and the world is as closed and narrow minded as the people you detest. I'm not going to call you as bad as them because you seem to be coming from a position of rooting out racism where the people at the opposite end of the spectrum are racist scum.

But you have a very simplistic view of the situation, either people are for the gesture or they are racist. Could it not be the case that people have a different interpretation of the gesture even if its misguided? Or maybe you can mind read everyone in this country.
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If that's how you see me and supporting equality that's fine. 👍
 
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festa5 said:
Not sure if you're stereotyping them because of their age or their profession. Either way it's a hell of an assumption.

Britt clearly cares enough to have reached his own, perfectly reasonable, position on it. Why do you not think any of the others care?

Some won't, some will. But I'd probably expect footballers as a group would care more than average. They're more likely to be affected or know someone who is by racism and will almost certainly have witnessed it first hand on multiple occasions.
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In the 80's I was watching Boro v York from the Holgate End of the Clive Road Terrace, and Keith Walwyn a big black centre forward was brought down and awarded a free kick. Right decision. From behind me came the shout" The ref's a N***** Lover"!! Absolutely appalling. And no one, including me took him on, but then I couldn't be sure who it was!! Let's Kick Out Racism started in 1993 - 27 years ago and the issue is as problematic as ever, on so many levels. It hasn't gone away and given we allegedly live in more enlightened times, that is both appalling and unacceptable.

It is not for me to tell any person, how they should deal with all aspects of racism and they should be respected. But when Sports Channels and teams at the highest level are still taking the knee, how can some clubs make that decision on behalf of all of the players, to the detriment of any players, who may still wish to 'take the knee'?

Arsenal v Man Utd; both teams took the knee, as have Southampton v Villa tonight. Gary Neville mentioned there are those that think it's an 'empty gesture', but by keeping it, it retains the pressure and supports all the other measures being undertaken. Of course, not doing it, is a gesture in itself, for all the world to see.

Bill Leslie on the Southampton v Villa game, said the protest was particularly relevant in the light of events earlier this week.

Living in London, keep up with the Boro, oftenthrough subscription and I am saddened, when we are told that the Boro are not taking the knee, because the captain doesn't believe in empty gestures. A player who prays and crosses himself on the pitch, for all the world to see.

Keith Walwyn played 245 games for York City, before playing over 60 games each for Blackpool and Carlisle. Keith was the Guest of Honour at the opening of Blackpool's new £7 million stand and York City named one of its hospitality rooms, the Keith Walwyn Vice Presidents suite. Keith sadly died in 2003, while undergoing heart surgery, aged 47.
 
al1948uk- that is a very good account of "unconscious" racism - by that I mean it was the norm in those days and people did not understand what racism even meant.
I watched a lot of my games in the pub before lockdown and sat with some older people. (in their 70's and 80's). Whenever they saw a black player on the screen they called him a "darkie". They appreciated his skills and talent but always questioned why he got into the team ahead of "one of ours".
Some of the younger regulars (in their 50's and 60's) just called them black bstds. They knew what they were doing was out and out racism but they didn't care. "They shouldn't be in this country, we are a white nation", they would say, "Deport them to where they came from". I would tell them they were born in this country. "Well deport them to their parents/grand parents/great grand parents country and take all their families and relatives with them", is what they would say.
Taking the knee is a grand gesture but massive amounts of work needs to be done.
I may be fortunate but I have never seen a racist child, but I have seen racist parents.
 
Trug said:
al1948uk- that is a very good account of "unconscious" racism - by that I mean it was the norm in those days and people did not understand what racism even meant.
I watched a lot of my games in the pub before lockdown and sat with some older people. (in their 70's and 80's). Whenever they saw a black player on the screen they called him a "darkie". They appreciated his skills and talent but always questioned why he got into the team ahead of "one of ours".
Some of the younger regulars (in their 50's and 60's) just called them black bstds. They knew what they were doing was out and out racism but they didn't care. "They shouldn't be in this country, we are a white nation", they would say, "Deport them to where they came from". I would tell them they were born in this country. "Well deport them to their parents/grand parents/great grand parents country and take all their families and relatives with them", is what they would say.
Taking the knee is a grand gesture but massive amounts of work needs to be done.
I may be fortunate but I have never seen a racist child, but I have seen racist parents.
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Cheers Trug,

I agree. Y]Taking the knee is a supplement to the work that started back in 1993 and is sadly as relevant as ever.
 
Trug said:
al1948uk- that is a very good account of "unconscious" racism - by that I mean it was the norm in those days and people did not understand what racism even meant.
I watched a lot of my games in the pub before lockdown and sat with some older people. (in their 70's and 80's). Whenever they saw a black player on the screen they called him a "darkie". They appreciated his skills and talent but always questioned why he got into the team ahead of "one of ours".
Some of the younger regulars (in their 50's and 60's) just called them black bstds. They knew what they were doing was out and out racism but they didn't care. "They shouldn't be in this country, we are a white nation", they would say, "Deport them to where they came from". I would tell them they were born in this country. "Well deport them to their parents/grand parents/great grand parents country and take all their families and relatives with them", is what they would say.
Taking the knee is a grand gesture but massive amounts of work needs to be done.
I may be fortunate but I have never seen a racist child, but I have seen racist parents.
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That sounds like the worlds worst pub. I’d avoid it if I were you.
 
al1948uk said:
In the 80's I was watching Boro v York from the Holgate End of the Clive Road Terrace, and Keith Walwyn a big black centre forward was brought down and awarded a free kick. Right decision. From behind me came the shout" The ref's a N***** Lover"!! Absolutely appalling. And no one, including me took him on, but then I couldn't be sure who it was!! Let's Kick Out Racism started in 1993 - 27 years ago and the issue is as problematic as ever, on so many levels. It hasn't gone away and given we allegedly live in more enlightened times, that is both appalling and unacceptable.

It is not for me to tell any person, how they should deal with all aspects of racism and they should be respected. But when Sports Channels and teams at the highest level are still taking the knee, how can some clubs make that decision on behalf of all of the players, to the detriment of any players, who may still wish to 'take the knee'?

Arsenal v Man Utd; both teams took the knee, as have Southampton v Villa tonight. Gary Neville mentioned there are those that think it's an 'empty gesture', but by keeping it, it retains the pressure and supports all the other measures being undertaken. Of course, not doing it, is a gesture in itself, for all the world to see.

Bill Leslie on the Southampton v Villa game, said the protest was particularly relevant in the light of events earlier this week.

Living in London, keep up with the Boro, oftenthrough subscription and I am saddened, when we are told that the Boro are not taking the knee, because the captain doesn't believe in empty gestures. A player who prays and crosses himself on the pitch, for all the world to see.

Keith Walwyn played 245 games for York City, before playing over 60 games each for Blackpool and Carlisle. Keith was the Guest of Honour at the opening of Blackpool's new £7 million stand and York City named one of its hospitality rooms, the Keith Walwyn Vice Presidents suite. Keith sadly died in 2003, while undergoing heart surgery, aged 47.
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In 1995 we were playing Sheffield United late in our promotion season. It finished 1-1 and late in the game someone behind me in the South Stand shouted at Nathan Blake, who had scored their goal, something including the ‘n’ word. Everyone in the area heard it. I did take the bloke on but got absolutely zero support from those around me, including the stewards, one of whom was close by and would have witnessed the whole thing. The only reaction was someone telling me to calm down. I felt very alone. I didn’t think to get the bloke’s seat number and report it to the club, but I think that even if I had they wouldn’t have done anything. I like to think that if that happened today things would be different. But I also think it wouldn’t happen today. Things are different. As we’ve seen, racists will find other ways. I can see Britt Assombalonga’s and Les Ferdinand’s point of view, and I’m as guilty as anyone of barely noticing the taking of the knee these days, it being almost just another part of the matchday ceremony but, as we saw at Millwall, it is noticed by the racists and will be important when we get people back in games. For that reason I wish Boro would do it, and certainly hope they do when we get spectators back.
 
Capybara said:
In 1995 we were playing Sheffield United late in our promotion season. It finished 1-1 and late in the game someone behind me in the South Stand shouted at Nathan Blake, who had scored their goal, something including the ‘n’ word. Everyone in the area heard it. I did take the bloke on but got absolutely zero support from those around me, including the stewards, one of whom was close by and would have witnessed the whole thing. The only reaction was someone telling me to calm down. I felt very alone. I didn’t think to get the bloke’s seat number and report it to the club, but I think that even if I had they wouldn’t have done anything. I like to think that if that happened today things would be different. But I also think it wouldn’t happen today. Things are different. As we’ve seen, racists will find other ways. I can see Britt Assombalonga’s and Les Ferdinand’s point of view, and I’m as guilty as anyone of barely noticing the taking of the knee these days, it being almost just another part of the matchday ceremony but, as we saw at Millwall, it is

noticed by the racists and will be important when we get people back in games. For that reason I wish Boro would do it, and certainly hope they do when we get spectators back.
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I was disappointed the racists immediately achieved their aim of stopping Millwall players taking the knee
The players had said they would do it until January - and the racist booing stopped that
 
I don’t think taking the knee is simply symbolism, I think it is a constant reminder to people of the abuse black players still face in the game today. If it stopped the current pressure for change would take a big backwards step at a time more than ever it needs to press on. Personally I was very disappointed we moved away from solidarity with the rest of the football family.
 
Duffman said:
I don’t think taking the knee is simply symbolism, I think it is a constant reminder to people of the abuse black players still face in the game today. If it stopped the current pressure for change would take a big backwards step at a time more than ever it needs to press on. Personally I was very disappointed we moved away from solidarity with the rest of the football family.
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Me too, it was a message to the racists that they had the power to stop players doing it by booing
 
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