Calcutta cup

Soutra said:
I think Scotland's performance was quite good, no better than that. England were so bad that Scotland should have won by 25 points. A series of bad decisions by Scotland - kicking for touch instead of for goal, and then for goal instead of for touch - kept it closer than it should have been.

Scotland can play much better than that. I'm very happy though that the Calcutta Cup comes back again, three years out of the last four.
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That’s the sickening thing for me about yesterday’s match. It wasn’t that we got beat it’s that we lost the game. Big difference. Last season in the first game we were comfortably beaten by a better team. Yesterday we lost it ourselves to a patchy team.
France for the grand slam?
 
It's unfair to say England only lost because they were bad. Scotland have some seriously good players and as a team put in a good performance.

Since beating New Zealand at the World Cup, England's form has been hit and miss. The defence has been the main reason for winning and without key players in defence they struggled. Underhill, Mako Vunipola and Sinckler usually stop teams gaining momentum. They were badly missed and Scotland exploited it very well.

Don't be surprised if England end up losing three games this championship. In fact, they could lose four if the right players are not selected.
 
England were frankly embarrassing yesterday - it was all "do what Eddie told us to do, do what Eddie told us to do, ........" with absolutely no ability to read the game and adapt. Scotland were like a breath of fresh air, playing superb rugby, but as has been said, couldn't convert their superiority into points - they should have been out of sight at HT

The Saracens boys were patently not match fit, and as for this fixation with box kicking ALL the time, well, words fail me. Even when Eddie's favourite Youngs was replaced, Robson just repeated everything that he had done (just a little bit quicker).

Farrell, well .... words fail me - looked lost, and absolutely no idea how to manage the game - the comparison with Russell was stark. Eddie will just not drop him, or even replace him during the match - same with his other favourites - Daly, George, Vunipola

Slow ball the whole time, backs receiving when they were stationary rather than running on to it - we could go on. Jonny May's main contribution was playing as No8 in the scrum when Vunipola was in the sin bin

However, maybe it's Eddie we should be looking to change, not the players ?
 
Malaguena said:
England were frankly embarrassing yesterday - it was all "do what Eddie told us to do, do what Eddie told us to do, ........" with absolutely no ability to read the game and adapt. Scotland were like a breath of fresh air, playing superb rugby, but as has been said, couldn't convert their superiority into points - they should have been out of sight at HT

The Saracens boys were patently not match fit, and as for this fixation with box kicking ALL the time, well, words fail me. Even when Eddie's favourite Youngs was replaced, Robson just repeated everything that he had done (just a little bit quicker).

Farrell, well .... words fail me - looked lost, and absolutely no idea how to manage the game - the comparison with Russell was stark. Eddie will just not drop him, or even replace him during the match - same with his other favourites - Daly, George, Vunipola

Slow ball the whole time, backs receiving when they were stationary rather than running on to it - we could go on. Jonny May's main contribution was playing as No8 in the scrum when Vunipola was in the sin bin

However, maybe it's Eddie we should be looking to change, not the players ?
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Bad day at the office, however as a whole our record has been superb under Jones.

I fully expect us to be very competitive for the rest of the tournament.
 
Alzi said:
Bad day at the office, however as a whole our record has been superb under Jones.

I fully expect us to be very competitive for the rest of the tournament.
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People calling for Jones to be sacked are ridiculous. England have no right to win against anyone. Scotland, Wales, Ireland and France are all good teams. So are England but they were second best yesterday and will know and accept that.
 
Nero said:
They were out played and that happens
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... and they were incapable of changing their game plan to react to it - that to me is the sign of an overcoached team who are not allowed to (or have the ability to) think for themselves as the match develops

With his petty refusal to pick form players (Simmons x 2 at Exeter for example) or those that won't play to his predetermined game plan, and continue to pick his favourites, he's showing his limitations.
 
Malaguena said:
... and they were incapable of changing their game plan to react to it - that to me is the sign of an overcoached team who are not allowed to (or have the ability to) think for themselves as the match develops

With his petty refusal to pick form players (Simmons x 2 at Exeter for example) or those that won't play to his predetermined game plan, and continue to pick his favourites, he's showing his limitations.
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Austin Healey had a rant about Simmons during the first half of the Newcastle match. He sounded really upset that he isn’t given a chance by England
 
Malaguena said:
... and they were incapable of changing their game plan to react to it - that to me is the sign of an overcoached team who are not allowed to (or have the ability to) think for themselves as the match develops

With his petty refusal to pick form players (Simmons x 2 at Exeter for example) or those that won't play to his predetermined game plan, and continue to pick his favourites, he's showing his limitations.
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Were England over coached when reaching the World Cup Final hammering Australia and New Zealand on the way?

Scotland did to England what England did to the All Blacks. Since Jones took over England have won their first grand slam since 2003 and won three Six Nations. The bloke has challenged rugby and clearly knows what he's doing.

Your point about Simmonds is good though. I understand why Joe isn't selected but Sam Simmonds must be involved. I don't know why Jack Willis wasn't there in place of Underhill either. Willis has been the best back rower in the Premiership for 18 months.
 
Nero said:
Were England over coached when reaching the World Cup Final hammering Australia and New Zealand on the way
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No, of course not, but in those two games, plan A worked - they got plenty of ball, played superb rugby, and Aus and NZ couldn't react to it - well coached

The opposite example is the final - SA stopped England getting the ball by bossing the scrum, but England didn't have a plan B when when plan A wasn't working - a great team would be able to (or be allowed to by their coach) react to how the game is going

Edit - agree about Willis
 
England only have Plan A - grind the opposition down through forward dominance and attritional defence. If that doesn't work they have no Plan B, as Farrell and Youngs are death to any back line.
 
Malaguena said:
No, of course not, but in those two games, plan A worked - they got plenty of ball, played superb rugby, and Aus and NZ couldn't react to it - well coached

The opposite example is the final - SA stopped England getting the ball by bossing the scrum, but England didn't have a plan B when when plan A wasn't working - a great team would be able to (or be allowed to by their coach) react to how the game is going

Edit - agree about Willis
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I'm not sure what the mythical Plan B is. They were well beaten and must say well done Scotland and move on.

The All Blacks didn't moan when comprehensively beaten in the Semi Final. Instead they recognised a great performance from England and moved on.

England are fortunate they've got a game immediately as they need it. Sinckler is back too so the front row far better straight away.
 
Nero said:
I'm not sure what the mythical Plan B is. They were well beaten and must say well done Scotland and move on.

The All Blacks didn't moan when comprehensively beaten in the Semi Final. Instead they recognised a great performance from England and moved on.

England are fortunate they've got a game immediately as they need it. Sinckler is back too so the front row far better straight away.
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Not disagreeing with any of that, and absolutely well done to Scotland - they were superb - I was just saying England are incapable of adapting their game during play
 
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