Canadian Grand Prix this weekend

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Spraggons Den

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How will the teams now cope with the new FIA dictate to reduce porpoising in their cars by effectively forcing the teams to raise the ride height of their cars?
 
I agree with Martin brundle it’s not the fia job it should’ve down to the teams.

I guess we’ll soon see how and who this will benefit disadvantage as the there’s no whetecto hide on the fast straights of Montreal.
 
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Jedi boro said:
I agree with Martin brundle it’s not the fia job it should’ve down to the teams.
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Yes and I think so too but I think the teams have brought this decision on themselves by going for all out speed at the discomfort of their drivers in the hope that they could get a more favourable decision from the FIA. It would appear that's not the case. So advantage Red Bull then.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Erm I think [Mercedes] will be the most affected by this rule change and will be considerably slower because of it. The good news is though that Lewis's back should be a bit better without all that bouncing up and down.
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Didn't Mercedes want an increased ride height though?
 
The reality is that no one really knows.

It could bring the other cars down to he mercs level or it could kill the mercs completely by removing any gain they have.

I wonder how George feels as arguably he was getting the best out of that merc.

I guess we’ll see
 
newusername said:
Didn't Mercedes want an increased ride height though?
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Yes they did but the way this new rule is to be written is to help reduce the porpoising of the cars. Unfortunately for them cars like the Red Bull, Aston Martin, Maclaren and even the Williams don't porpoise very much at all so wont need to raise their cars as much as the Mercedes or the Ferrari. And as such won't be as disadvantage by the rule change.
 
Spraggons Den said:
Yes they did but the way this new rule is to be written is to help reduce the porpoising of the cars. Unfortunately for them cars like the Red Bull, Aston Martin, Maclaren and even the Williams don't porpoise very much at all so wont need to raise their cars as much as the Mercedes or the Ferrari. And as such won't be as disadvantage by the rule change.
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They're all doing it pretty much except Alpine and RedBull.

It doesn't really mention or effect ride height does it?

It is almost impossible to measure ride height routinely because of how dynamic it is. They're going to be looking more at the G from the bouncing (from stiff suspension and porpoising) and how much floors and skid blocks are wearing I believe?

So a car with a very flexible floor at high speed could be wearing its floor, without porpoising being the primary cause, but a car with a very stiff floor but softer/more compliant suspension may not wear the floor whilst porpoising.

Be interesting to see what happens. At face value it looks like a boost for RedBull and Alpine straight away, Ferrari is interesting because they have porpoising, but the car seems pretty stable and compliant as the suspension is coping better. The Mercedes is very stiff and bouncy and was rattling off the floor like nobody's business in Baku, so they seem to get a double whammy of negative effects.

I bet the rest of the paddock can't wait for Newy to retire!
 
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Caesium137 said:
They're all doing it pretty much except Alpine and RedBull.

It doesn't really mention or effect ride height does it?

It is almost impossible to measure ride height routinely because of how dynamic it is. They're going to be looking more at the G from the bouncing (from stiff suspension and porpoising) and how much floors and skid blocks are wearing I believe?

So a car with a very flexible floor at high speed could be wearing its floor, without porpoising being the primary cause, but a car with a very stiff floor but softer/more compliant suspension may not wear the floor whilst porpoising.

Be interesting to see what happens. At face value it looks like a boost for RedBull and Alpine straight away, Ferrari is interesting because they have porpoising, but the car seems pretty stable and compliant as the suspension is coping better. The Mercedes is very stiff and bouncy and was rattling off the floor like nobody's business in Baku, so they seem to get a double whammy of negative effects.

I bet the rest of the paddock can't wait for Newy to retire!
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The quick fix to sort out the oscillations (porpoising) is to raise the ride height of the car. The teams engineers don't want to do this as they loose a lot of performance if they do. But now the FIA have stepped in on safety grounds and will now monitor the porpoising and generate a mathematical model that the teams must not exceed. In essence this means if you car is porpoising you will be forced to raise the ride height in the short term until you find other solutions to your cars problems. Like I said advantage Red Bull
 
Spraggons Den said:
Like I said advantage Red Bull
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But red bull already had the advantage as in they had coped best with the issue so nothing has changed really.

It will be interesting how Ferrari cope with this as they do have a car that can compete on track. ( when it doesn’t blow up )
 
Spraggons Den said:
The quick fix to sort out the oscillations (porpoising) is to raise the ride height of the car. The teams engineers don't want to do this as they loose a lot of performance if they do. But now the FIA have stepped in on safety grounds and will now monitor the porpoising and generate a mathematical model that the teams must not exceed. In essence this means if you car is porpoising you will be forced to raise the ride height in the short term until you find other solutions to your cars problems. Like I said advantage Red Bull
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🤷🏼‍♂️

I said that as well, advantage RedBull and Alpine who have the least oscillation. I pointed out it may not be as simple as just ride height though. Floor flex and suspension stiffness will play a big part as they're going to be measuring the G, so a very stiff suspension car that bottoms hard will generate more G than a greater porpoising car that rides very softly on its suspension.
 
Jedi boro said:
But red bull already had the advantage as in they had coped best with the issue so nothing has changed really.

It will be interesting how Ferrari cope with this as they do have a car that can compete on track. ( when it doesn’t blow up )
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I think Ferrari will also have problems with this new directive as their car oscillates rather badly on the straights. But the aero package they have seems to sort itself out in the bends. It depends on what the FIA say after free practice one this evening but the main consensus is a 10mm ride height increase for those cars that don't come up to the FIA's new oscillating diktat.
 
It could effectively be season over. Red Bull who look streets ahead of the field, including Ferrari*, won't be affected. The rest of the field will have to increase their ride height and will consequently be doing slower laps.

With this scenario, what was supposed to be the dawn of a new more competitive era will actually become the opposite with Red Bull winning every race.

*Because of Ferrari's ride and reliability issues.
 
billsykes said:
It could effectively be season over. Red Bull who look streets ahead of the field, including Ferrari*, won't be affected. The rest of the field will have to increase their ride height and will consequently be doing slower laps.

With this scenario, what was supposed to be the dawn of a new more competitive era will actually become the opposite with Red Bull winning every race.

*Because of Ferrari's ride and reliability issues.
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I did call this at the start of the year with the new car regulations. One team will get it right, two or three teams will be close and the rest will be playing catch up.
 
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