ForssAwakens
Well-known member
Scientific evidence and opinions of anonymous posters, two entirely different animals
Dean Windass to sue football authorities
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ForssAwakens
Well-known member
I can’t believe people what I’ve seen in this thread
you only have to look at rugby
you only have to look at rugby
What an absolutely ridiculous thing to say
Gramsci
Active member
The legal case is not so much about causation, although that’s relevant, as the medical evidence is on balance clear that there is a link. The key legal question is whether the football governing bodies were negligent in not recognising the risks and then changing the rules on heading the ball to minimise the risk of damage. On that second issue I think they have very little chance,
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MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
The F.A tried to bring in a heading ban in the junior leagues, think it was successful in the TJFA upto u11's but not in the RFYL or Northumberland leagues, and the pushback from parents and coaches was unfathomable!!
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jonny_greenings_sock
Well-known member
Dementia is one of the most horrendous diseases and CTE is a ticking time bomb, I read a bunch of research about it in sport a few years ago.
What is interesting is that CTE seems to be caused by lots and lots of mini-traumas, especially bad if you are already suffering from concussion and keep exposing yourself to mini-traumas. In combat sport terms it’s not the spectacular knockout that gets you, it’s the tens of thousands of punches you take during sparring.
There’s a huge pushback against kids playing NFL over the pond - again because of the repeated head trauma, not because of getting absolutely smashed once - and of course cricket is much more conscious of the risks of concussion as more research comes out.
Also correct that it can only be diagnosed post mortem, so it’s very hard to learn about. And posters are correct as well that as people in general live 10-20 years longer, you’re more likely to develop dementia and other age-related conditions simply due to age. But CTE is a hell of a worry. I suspect heading will be banned across all junior football within a few years.
What is interesting is that CTE seems to be caused by lots and lots of mini-traumas, especially bad if you are already suffering from concussion and keep exposing yourself to mini-traumas. In combat sport terms it’s not the spectacular knockout that gets you, it’s the tens of thousands of punches you take during sparring.
There’s a huge pushback against kids playing NFL over the pond - again because of the repeated head trauma, not because of getting absolutely smashed once - and of course cricket is much more conscious of the risks of concussion as more research comes out.
Also correct that it can only be diagnosed post mortem, so it’s very hard to learn about. And posters are correct as well that as people in general live 10-20 years longer, you’re more likely to develop dementia and other age-related conditions simply due to age. But CTE is a hell of a worry. I suspect heading will be banned across all junior football within a few years.
Colgates_shaving_foam
Well-known member
I absolutely hated heading the ball. Loved playing football but even as a kid I could just tell that it was incredibly dangerous.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
I do believe there was quite a bit of a pushback on here. There certainly was at the TJFA meeting held at the Riverside at the time.
It's an optional pilot scheme nationwide. Like you say TJFA, have opted into the pilot scheme which actually includes U12. Heading is not allowed until U13. I actually heard recently that there is proposals to extend it through to U17.
Our friends up the road in the Durham, Russell Foster and Northumberland leagues can all still head it and most tournaments not affiliated with the TJFA still allow heading. From a skill perspective, our children are going to be at a massive disadvantage.
I personally believe U12 is too old. Fine for U7 and U8s not to header it, but once they move to 7v7 and the pitch grows, the kids become become bigger and stronger then longer balls become part of the game. Not allowing heading causes more problems. Now we see kids trying to bring the ball down at head height with their feet leading to lots of high feet, It just encourages both bad technique and dangerous play.
At 5v5 the no heading rule isn't a problem because minimal children head it and the smaller pitches mean the game is predominantly played on the floor anyway. I would potentially go one further and bring a head height rule in and change throw ins to kick ins.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
ah yeah, My eldest was actually an U12 the year the rule was brought in, so they were "exempt".
The issue I regularly see is keepers smashing the ball 50 yards from goals kicks, the ball coming down with snow on, and Kids aged 12 Sticking a head on, often, with the incorrect technique, as they aren't permitted to practice how to do it safely.
There needs to be a drastic review of the rules/coaching imho as we shouldn't have kids at 7v7, 9v9 playing long balls anyways
Mustoes boots
Member
He should have been in court for ABH as a minimum
I agree to an extent. But once the retreat rule is no longer in place. (From U11 onwards). Sometimes it is a necessity to play long otherwise teams just push up to beat the press. (A bit like what happened to Boro in January / February).
There's also corners and set-pieces to think about. This is generally when you see people flying in with high feet trying to get on the end of a cross because they can't header it.
It's not an easy solution.
MickaelDebevePhenomenal
Well-known member
It isnt, but its certainly something that can be brought about through coaching change. My son has played academy level football at least up to the 9v9 format and there are very few headers due to the style of play encouraged by teams.
Won't be easy to do or implement, as you will always get teams with a big lad at the back, who has a shave pre match at u11's, smashing it forward, but investment in grassroots coaching, with a tweaking of the rules, would go a long way (where that investment comes from is probably another thread on its own)
Jonny - while we are living longer the prevalence of early onset of dementia in the football world is becoming more and more apparent. You don't need to look very far from home at all to look at local footballing figures that developed very early and rapid dementia. Gordon McQueen's family have been big campaigners against heading in training. I know Tony Lee's family very well and he was such a big loss. I would rather not go into others that developed dementia relatively early in life because of privacy to their families.
Academy level players are good enough to keep playing out from the back though and the keepers are also skilled enough to become the extra player when needed. As someone who coaches teams of all levels (from very high level/academy level down to foundation) I can honestly say I don't think you can just make a blanket statement that all teams should always play put from the back. It should be encouraged, but it also needs to be recognised when playing out from the back isn't the correct decision.
Not all grass roots teams are skilled enough to receive the ball under pressure. It's totally demoralising watching the same kids get dispossessed at the edge of their own box because the keeper constantly passes the ball to them under pressure. Yes if they have got space and time, encourage the keeper to play it out short and get them on the ball as much as possible, but if an opponent is pushing right up to make things difficult and leaving a 2v2 on the halfway line then it should also be encouraged to play the longer ball and exploit that. This doesn't mean just kick the ball aimlessly like the bearded 11 year old centre half you describe, but it's about coaching game awareness.
If they really wanted to exclusively play the ball on the floor and play short from the back then they would need the retreat rule to stay in place for lower level teams and even introduce it for when the keeper has the ball in his hands.
SilentProf
Well-known member
Changes have already been made at all levels and rightly so. I know pro clubs now monitor and limit repetitive heading drills in training, which is where a lot of the damage was believed to have been done. Modern playing styles encourage bringing the ball under control and playing it on the ground a lot more, which is also going to be beneficial. I think it will be much less of an issue in 20 years than it is now but the important thing is that the authorities are aware and are doing something about it.
Otto42
Well-known member
Exactly. There's an England Rugby World Cup Winner, Steve Thompson, who now remembers nothing of his career.
If any of you are available next week there is a launch of No-Brainer the biography of Bill Gates at Ferryhill Working Men's Club at 6.30pm on Tuesday 7th May. There will be a film all about CTE and the work Dr Judith Gates charity Head Safe Football is doing in education, research, support and campaigning.
Bill was from Ferryhill. He was Britain's first £50 a week footballer at 17. He made 333 appearance for Boro but began to suffer from terrible migraines after constant head tennis training sessions. He got out before he was 30 and invested in sports shops at just the right time. No coincidence as he had researched it meticulously as well as training as an accountant,
But all his millions from selling his shop Empire could buy him paradise but not an escape from dementia. He and his wife Dr Judith Gates decided to dedicate themselves to tackling dementia in football.
Tragically Bill died in a care home near Teesside Airport but his wife carries on with the cause. All royalties from the book go to Head Safe Football, the charity that is Bill's legacy.
Bill was from Ferryhill. He was Britain's first £50 a week footballer at 17. He made 333 appearance for Boro but began to suffer from terrible migraines after constant head tennis training sessions. He got out before he was 30 and invested in sports shops at just the right time. No coincidence as he had researched it meticulously as well as training as an accountant,
But all his millions from selling his shop Empire could buy him paradise but not an escape from dementia. He and his wife Dr Judith Gates decided to dedicate themselves to tackling dementia in football.
Tragically Bill died in a care home near Teesside Airport but his wife carries on with the cause. All royalties from the book go to Head Safe Football, the charity that is Bill's legacy.