Defensive frailties / Lenihan / Smith?

Heam44

Well-known member
For several reasons I don’t get to watch as much or the mighty boro as I’d like to. Or as much as many of you lot. I’m limited to a couple of homes games a season and then sky sports live games / red button and highlights. So I’d be interested in others opinions on our defensive issues.

I think we’d all agree - defence is our main issue.

But why?

We’ve got a great manager, who has us playing great attacking football. Is ‘defensive coaching’ his/the mangement teams weakness?

Or are we missing our ‘defensive organisers’ Lenihan and Smith?

Or do we just need a better defensive midfielder? There’s no doubt we are missing Hackney. And it’d be great to get O’Brien back.

Could it be that we haven’t had chance to play a settled back 4?

Or is it a combination of the above?

Do we need better defenders? I don’t think it is. In my opinion the recruitment team have identified some good talent at bargain prices. Personally I’m happy with all of our defenders on an individual basis.

Thoughts?
 
Our manager doesn’t focus at all on the defence, it’s as though it’s an after thought as we have the same issues no matter who plays there, same as last season, score one more than the opposition is his default tactic
 
Said it for ages. Smith is the biggest miss of the lot apart from hackney . He’s a leader and a proper full back. Dijksteel can’t be relied upon as his form is hit and miss and picks up niggles and VDB is our best centre back who shouldn’t be used at RB. We need to sign a RB and quick.
 
We desperately need a RB who will be first choice. Van den Berg at RB completely ruins our attacking fluidity ( despite that I still rate VDB highly) , Jones has to shoulder more responsibility attacking when VDB is playing and he's easier to mark out of a game when no one is running past him or he is being supported further up the pitch.
 
Our manager doesn’t focus at all on the defence, it’s as though it’s an after thought as we have the same issues no matter who plays there, same as last season, score one more than the opposition is his default tactic
I don't really think this is the case, as each home game the back four go through drills in the warm up, normally with Woodgate on movement and defending/attacking the ball.

What we don't do well is defend as a team, defending is a collective approach and requires everyone to do there bit.

Defenders and goalkeepers are the last line of defence and granted that at times we make some horrendous mistakes but if you look 5 seconds previous it is probably somewhere else where the move should of been cut out.

Take today for example the first goal we had four or 5 players around one Coventry player none attempted to close the player down he then threads the ball down the line, they win a corner keeper saves no one is marking /closing down quick enough the rebound, so many opportunities to prevent a goal.

On another occasion Johnny howson is chasing back to prevent an attack in the second half while Jones and RVDB are just stood watching, attitude and desire has to be better, its a team game and all players need to work together better
 
I think we’d all agree - defence is our main issue.
No.

Failure to convert good chances is our main issue. Looking at the three Coventry goals today I'm not sure there is anyone to "blame" or if they were the result of systemic failures in the defence. First goal, terrific save by Glover lands at the feet of an attacker. Second goal if Engel and Greenwood had managed to do their jobs properly and just putt he ball out (they both had chances to do so) we could have reset and defended. Third goal, you've just got to say is a brilliant chip to the back post.
On another occasion Johnny howson is chasing back to prevent an attack in the second half while Jones and RVDB are just stood watching, attitude and desire has to be better, its a team game and all players need to work together better
I think a lot of that was just tired players with too many miles in their legs.
 
Whilst I agree to extent, if the powderpuff, blind alley turning, head down, 75% of the time choosing the wrong option, forward line and set piece coach/taker did their jobs 50% better, we'd not be under pressure to defend for our lives / panic as often as we are.

I've said for years and I stand by this, we are a team full of fannies, we lack fight, discipline, belief, the 'shíthousėry' and dark arts to influence a referee, waste time, break up play etc. Until we have a few hardened pros who take conceding goals as personal insult, and drive their teammates to consistently deliver, put in the hard yards, pick up their man, bust a gut to get back etc. nothing will change.

We lack power, aggression and nastiness. I think a big reason we get nothing off referees is we don't appeal/moan/influence enough, especially from our captain. When the third went in today there was no geeing up, no annoyance it seemed, we looked like we expected it to happen from 35 minutes onwards and there was nothing we could really do to stop it, or then reverse it.

I'd also say whilst 80% of the time Carrick's unflustered and non-emotional / stoic touchline demeanour is an asset and preferable. I do think he should let the players know he's annoyed and they're not doing enough when things go against us at times, whether that's a boIIocking or an early sub etc I don't know. But I feel there's a fine line between stoic / indifferent confidence in your initial plan and then inaction in my eyes, and on occasion he lets things go too wrong, for too long.

It seems to be a repeating pattern where in game management starts going against us and nothing changes, almost ever. Like for like subs, the first 62-64 minutes, then the second 8-10 minutes later, followed by a last throw.

I obviously understand why currently, as we are fůckéd for options off the bench, but the players and set-up really worked for 20-30 minutes, and yet again we made poor choices in the final third and failed to get a 2 or even 3 goal cushion that we could have had.

The opposition make a few tweaks, or our players aren't as effective and he almost seems paralysed to make changes. Again as above with his demeanour on the touchline, for the majority of the time his patience is probably an asset, but every now and then it would be nice if he threw the odd surprise for the opposition manager to think about.

To sum up (frustratedly) we are just far too easy/nice to play against. Without our attacking all stars from last season, we need to be better, defensively, in organisation/shape (especially when we concede and are under the cosh a bit), the dark arts etc. But also game management and tweaks from the bench, as we can't assume an Archer / Akpom will pull us out of the shįt.

The harsh facts are, that in a big chunks of tight games that are defining our league position this season, we haven't been good enough. We play well in spells, some games a lot longer than others, but rarely seem to take our best chances, then when things are going against us, we seem to concede goals very easily, often a couple in succession and we have no plan B, whether that be in quality off the bench, or tactically to switch things up.

The better players will be back eventually, we may strengthen and get some of the quality we lost in Akpom/Archer/Ramsey replaced. But I just don't think our plan B / game management will be improved as easily. When the chips are down, we stutter and stumble, it seems to have been this way for years.

Not quite 'attitude over abbiliteh' but we need to be better.

Onwards and upwards, I believe in the manager and what the club are trying to achieve in squad development and sustainability.

I hope we can strengthen with a few permanents (maybe a loan or two to cover the long term injured) in this window. Building towards having an integrated squad by summer with minimal signings / rebuilds needed, and we can hit the ground running in August.

UTB
 
Last edited:
Whilst I agree to extent, if the powderpuff, blind alley turning, head down, 75% of the time choosing the wrong option, forward line and set piece coach/taker did their jobs 50% better, we'd not be under pressure to defend for our lives / panic as often as we are.

I've said for years and I stand by this, we are a team full of fannies, we lack fight, discipline, belief, the 'shíthousėry' and dark arts to influence a referee, waste time, break up play etc. Until we have a few hardened pros who take conceding goals as personal insult, and drive their teammates to consistently deliver, put in the hard yards, pick up their man, bust a gut to get back etc. nothing will change.

We lack power, aggression and nastiness. I think a big reason we get nothing off referees is we don't appeal/moan/influence enough, especially from our captain. When the third went in today there was no geeing up, no annoyance it seemed, we looked like we expected it to happen from 35 minutes onwards and there was nothing we could really do to stop it, or then reverse it.

I'd also say whilst 80% of the time Carrick's unflustered and non-emotional / stoic touchline demeanour is an asset and preferable. I do think he should let the players know he's annoyed and they're not doing enough when things go against us at times, whether that's a boIIocking or an early sub etc I don't know. But I feel there's a fine line between stoic / indifferent confidence in your initial plan and then inaction in my eyes, and on occasion he lets things go too wrong, for too long.

It seems to be a repeating pattern where in game management starts going against us and nothing changes, almost ever. Like for like subs, the first 62-64 minutes, then the second 8-10 minutes later, followed by a last throw.

I obviously understand why currently, as we are fůckéd for options off the bench, but the players and set-up really worked for 20-30 minutes, and yet again we made poor choices in the final third and failed to get a 2 or even 3 goal cushion that we could have had.

The opposition make a few tweaks, or our players aren't as effective and he almost seems paralysed to make changes. Again as above with his demeanour on the touchline, for the majority of the time his patience is probably an asset, but every now and then it would be nice if he threw the odd surprise for the opposition manager to think about.

To sum up (frustratedly) we are just far too easy/nice to play against. Without our attacking all stars from last season, we need to be better, defensively, in organisation/shape (especially when we concede and are under the cosh a bit), the dark arts etc. But also game management and tweaks from the bench, as we can't assume an Archer / Akpom will pull us out of the shįt.

The harsh facts are, that in a big chunks of tight games that are defining our league position this season, we haven't been good enough. We play well in spells, some games a lot longer than others, but rarely seem to take our best chances, then when things are going against us, we seem to concede goals very easily, often a couple in succession and we have no plan B, whether that be in quality off the bench, or tactically to switch things up.

The better players will be back eventually, we may strengthen and get some of the quality we lost in Akpom/Archer/Ramsey replaced. But I just don't think our plan B / game management will be improved as easily. When the chips are down, we stutter and stumble, it seems to have been this way for years.

Not quite 'attitude over abbiliteh' but we need to be better.

Onwards and upwards, I believe in the manager and what the club are trying to achieve in squad development and sustainability.

I hope we can strengthen with a few permanents (maybe a loan or two to cover the long term injured) in this window. Building towards having an integrated squad by summer with minimal signings / rebuilds needed, and we can hit the ground running in August.

UTB
I agree with the vast majority of your post, but I don't share your positivity about squad development and sustainability.
I think the recruitment has been broadly poor.
We are where we are because it is all we warrant.
9 points from the last 8 league matches. with 5 defeats.
We are behind where we were last season and our squad lacks quality.

Dieng, VdB and Rogers look good recruits.
Silvera, Engel, Lath, Gilbert, Glover, Bangura and Barlaser don't inspire me.
Jones is pure cover.
11 permanent signings this year.
 
Coventry today often had the midfield as defenders when they didn't have the ball. sometimes our midfield switch off a bit when we are defending, for me.

I am also not convinced our defenders are top 6 Championship defenders. For example didn't Smith and Lenihan play @ Huddersfield last season when we let in 4 goals in 20 minutes? They didn't look even average Championship that day.
 
I agree with the vast majority of your post, but I don't share your positivity about squad development and sustainability.
I agree with the reasons behind the squad direction, rather than being super positive about all of the signings, I'm certain the new model is better than the Britt/Fletcher/Gestede/Saville type signings on big fees / wages and losing them for basically nothing.

Agree we need to do better, but I think that signing 6/8 punts and 1/2 come good may just be how it goes for us now.

I suppose either way we go, it is getting value for money at the requisite quality. Whether the value comes from signing 10 players for £6 million and selling one of them for £30 million to finance the club, or signing one player for £6 million who gets 20 goals and 10 assists and fires us to promotion.

I think as an option Lath is probably fine (if we had a proper 9) and him and Coburn were rotation options, also Barlaser is probably fine as a rotation option too. But yeah, not starters for a side with top six ambitions.
 
Coventry today often had the midfield as defenders when they didn't have the ball. sometimes our midfield switch off a bit when we are defending, for me.

I am also not convinced our defenders are top 6 Championship defenders. For example didn't Smith and Lenihan play @ Huddersfield last season when we let in 4 goals in 20 minutes? They didn't look even average Championship that day.
Yes they both did.
 
Whilst I agree to extent, if the powderpuff, blind alley turning, head down, 75% of the time choosing the wrong option, forward line and set piece coach/taker did their jobs 50% better, we'd not be under pressure to defend for our lives / panic as often as we are.

I've said for years and I stand by this, we are a team full of fannies, we lack fight, discipline, belief, the 'shíthousėry' and dark arts to influence a referee, waste time, break up play etc. Until we have a few hardened pros who take conceding goals as personal insult, and drive their teammates to consistently deliver, put in the hard yards, pick up their man, bust a gut to get back etc. nothing will change.

We lack power, aggression and nastiness. I think a big reason we get nothing off referees is we don't appeal/moan/influence enough, especially from our captain. When the third went in today there was no geeing up, no annoyance it seemed, we looked like we expected it to happen from 35 minutes onwards and there was nothing we could really do to stop it, or then reverse it.

I'd also say whilst 80% of the time Carrick's unflustered and non-emotional / stoic touchline demeanour is an asset and preferable. I do think he should let the players know he's annoyed and they're not doing enough when things go against us at times, whether that's a boIIocking or an early sub etc I don't know. But I feel there's a fine line between stoic / indifferent confidence in your initial plan and then inaction in my eyes, and on occasion he lets things go too wrong, for too long.

It seems to be a repeating pattern where in game management starts going against us and nothing changes, almost ever. Like for like subs, the first 62-64 minutes, then the second 8-10 minutes later, followed by a last throw.

I obviously understand why currently, as we are fůckéd for options off the bench, but the players and set-up really worked for 20-30 minutes, and yet again we made poor choices in the final third and failed to get a 2 or even 3 goal cushion that we could have had.

The opposition make a few tweaks, or our players aren't as effective and he almost seems paralysed to make changes. Again as above with his demeanour on the touchline, for the majority of the time his patience is probably an asset, but every now and then it would be nice if he threw the odd surprise for the opposition manager to think about.

To sum up (frustratedly) we are just far too easy/nice to play against. Without our attacking all stars from last season, we need to be better, defensively, in organisation/shape (especially when we concede and are under the cosh a bit), the dark arts etc. But also game management and tweaks from the bench, as we can't assume an Archer / Akpom will pull us out of the shįt.

The harsh facts are, that in a big chunks of tight games that are defining our league position this season, we haven't been good enough. We play well in spells, some games a lot longer than others, but rarely seem to take our best chances, then when things are going against us, we seem to concede goals very easily, often a couple in succession and we have no plan B, whether that be in quality off the bench, or tactically to switch things up.

The better players will be back eventually, we may strengthen and get some of the quality we lost in Akpom/Archer/Ramsey replaced. But I just don't think our plan B / game management will be improved as easily. When the chips are down, we stutter and stumble, it seems to have been this way for years.

Not quite 'attitude over abbiliteh' but we need to be better.

Onwards and upwards, I believe in the manager and what the club are trying to achieve in squad development and sustainability.

I hope we can strengthen with a few permanents (maybe a loan or two to cover the long term injured) in this window. Building towards having an integrated squad by summer with minimal signings / rebuilds needed, and we can hit the ground running in August.

UTB
Great post!
 
We lack experience at FB at the moment, and we've had so many CB combinations this season that no one has been able to settle down into a partnership.

CDM is an issue, Howson does his best but he hasn't got the legs to do that role twice in a week in tough matches, Barlaser is fairly poor without the ball. Hackney is great, but he commits forward and really needs a super fit, super competitive intelligent player alongside, that plays it simple when he wins, he needs a new George Boateng behind him, then we will start to improve defensively.
 
Last edited:
:ROFLMAO:

I thought you'd shut up about this since most of the new arrivals have largely proved themselves. Just biding your time I see...
Yes, most of the new arrivals have largely proved themselves.
Engel, Lath, Silvera, Gilbert, Barlaser, Bangura, have proved themselves not to be very good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B_G
I have never rated Lenihan tbh I think he's hopeless, great at pointing and shouting after the event.
Smith wont play for the Boro again, as his contract is over in June and he has been past it for a long time, slow as old boots even prior to his injury.
I guess he was a reasonable player at times though, especially against poorer teams. But Smith at 33 coming back from a bad injury, we would be really hard up and would be showing little ambition if we re-signed him. I barely forgave him for chucking it in against the club he captained to their play off victory Huddersfield. I think he really helped them out when they needed him most in last seasons away game.

I think we should look between now and the beginning of next season to replace a lot of the defenders.

I cant see us making the play offs, although there has still been some decent football played at times. I think some the players hearts aren't big enough, but hopefully he can see the shirkers, or at least I hope he can.

Djiksteel has to go imho, he either injured or banned., which is no good to us at all.
I think McNair is leaving anyhow, I'm not sure about Clarke, see how the rest of the season goes for him.
 
Back
Top