EFL Announcement

[viv_andersons_nana]

It keeps everything honest and leads to less abuse of the refs by taking them out of the firing line.

I’m old enough to remember when people said all seater stadiums would ruin the experience of a match.

Premier League referees are still routinely slaughtered in the media. In fact there is probably more abuse now, because as VAR has been presented to us as infallible the refusal to accept subjective decisions being made has become even more entrenched.

Can you imagine VAR in division two, Jesus Christ. It’d be unwatchable.

 

[NYboro]

Premier League referees are still routinely slaughtered in the media. In fact there is probably more abuse now, because as VAR has been presented to us as infallible the refusal to accept subjective decisions being made has become even more entrenched.

Can you imagine VAR in division two, Jesus Christ. It’d be unwatchable.

The premier league is unwatchable now. I saw part of one of England's games last week and didn't recognise half the names on the England team.

 

[BoroMart]

Premier League referees are still routinely slaughtered in the media. In fact there is probably more abuse now, because as VAR has been presented to us as infallible the refusal to accept subjective decisions being made has become even more entrenched.

Can you imagine VAR in division two, Jesus Christ. It’d be unwatchable.

But the media are hardly the bastion of integrity or intellect.

If they removed VAR tomorrow, they'd still hammer the refs just as much and probably complain that VAR should be re-introduced.

The problem is expectations is of perfection, and there is no possible perfection in football due to rule interpretations. We no longer get offside goals allowed, that is a massive improvement, I'd like it to be automated eventually.

Next is fouls in or out the penalty area, these have massively improved too.

Thirdly is handballs, we might not like the way the rule is worded, BUT, the correct result aligned to the rules is applied far better today than pre-VAR.

Everything else, e.g. red card tackles etc. it can be argued either way, but the rules are largely applied better today than 10 years ago with the help of VAR. The howlers and borderline decisions, or harsh-but-correct ones are where the noise is. Part of this is down to fans bias, and refs interpretations which have always been in play, that's not a VAR thing, VAR just lays those decisions out for us all to dissect.

I understand the concerns about lack of instantaneous celebration. However, for me it's sport first entertainment second. Plus better process and automation can reduce that impact.

 

[HolgateCorner]

Premier League referees are still routinely slaughtered in the media. In fact there is probably more abuse now, because as VAR has been presented to us as infallible the refusal to accept subjective decisions being made has become even more entrenched.

Can you imagine VAR in division two, Jesus Christ. It’d be unwatchable.

I’m not sure that is true you used to hear people particularly commentators complaining about the VAR decision but I think they have realised that it makes them sound stupid. I think the VAR time delay helps some of the more erratic players calm down and shifts the decision making off the pitch and out of the stadium.

Everybody sees it differently but you know offside is offside and club, home crowd and influential players should not be able to bully decisions in their favour.

 

[Corcaigh_the_Cat]

It keeps everything honest and leads to less abuse of the refs by taking them out of the firing line.

I’m old enough to remember when people said all seater stadiums would ruin the experience of a match.

1. It doesn't keep everything honest.

2. They have for many.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

But the media are hardly the bastion of integrity or intellect.

If they removed VAR tomorrow, they'd still hammer the refs just as much and probably complain that VAR should be re-introduced.

The problem is expectations is of perfection, and there is no possible perfection in football due to rule interpretations. We no longer get offside goals allowed, that is a massive improvement, I'd like it to be automated eventually.

Next is fouls in or out the penalty area, these have massively improved too.

Thirdly is handballs, we might not like the way the rule is worded, BUT, the correct result aligned to the rules is applied far better today than pre-VAR.

Everything else, e.g. red card tackles etc. it can be argued either way, but the rules are largely applied better today than 10 years ago with the help of VAR. The howlers and borderline decisions, or harsh-but-correct ones are where the noise is. Part of this is down to fans bias, and refs interpretations which have always been in play, that's not a VAR thing, VAR just lays those decisions out for us all to dissect.

I understand the concerns about lack of instantaneous celebration. However, for me it's sport first entertainment second. Plus better process and automation can reduce that impact.

I was talking about managers and players, not just the media. People just cannot accept getting what they want. And so now everyone has to suffer the tedium of another set of officials sitting in a cupboard with a stylus and a ruler. And even then they get stuff wrong.

This obsession with bringing more and more rules and officials and technology into everything, trying to control or manage the flow of a game, to look for reasons to stop it or disallow something, I absolutely hate it. And I’m far from the only one.

 

[junos_boots]

It keeps everything honest and leads to less abuse of the refs by taking them out of the firing line.

I’m old enough to remember when people said all seater stadiums would ruin the experience of a match.

The only reason all seater stadia hasn't killed the atmosphere is becauise large sections of the crowd ignore the seats.

I'm not advocating a return to the terraces but if all seater policy was enacted fully then I think the atmosphere would be reduced

 

[BoroMart]

I was talking about managers and players, not just the media. People just cannot accept getting what they want. And so now everyone has to suffer the tedium of another set of officials sitting in a cupboard with a stylus and a ruler. And even then they get stuff wrong.

This obsession with bringing more and more rules and officials and technology into everything, trying to control or manage the flow of a game, to look for reasons to stop it or disallow something, I absolutely hate it. And I’m far from the only one.

But that's because people are not robots and can be influenced. By isolating official out of the stadium and away from managers, the can get more decisions influence and bias free.

There aren't more rules by the way. The same rules exist today as they have done for a very long time, the only difference is clarification on how to interpret them. That has always been a necessity because governing something like a game of football has always been a complex tasks. You may hate it, others don't. did you not hate it when West Ham were given a goal against us that didn't get within 3 foot of crossing the line? Technology has ensured that cannot or should not happen again.

The popularity of something doesn't influence me of it's merits, as a great philosopher once said "people like coldplay and voted for the nazis, you can't trust people"

 

[BoroMart]

The only reason all seater stadia hasn't killed the atmosphere is becauise large sections of the crowd ignore the seats.

I'm not advocating a return to the terraces but if all seater policy was enacted fully then I think the atmosphere would be reduced

or, you find a pragmatic solution, such as safe standing

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

But that's because people are not robots and can be influenced. By isolating official out of the stadium and away from managers, the can get more decisions influence and bias free.

There aren't more rules by the way. The same rules exist today as they have done for a very long time, the only difference is clarification on how to interpret them. That has always been a necessity because governing something like a game of football has always been a complex tasks. You may hate it, others don't. did you not hate it when West Ham were given a goal against us that didn't get within 3 foot of crossing the line? Technology has ensured that cannot or should not happen again.

The popularity of something doesn't influence me of it's merits, as a great philosopher once said "people like coldplay and voted for the nazis, you can't trust people"

There is far more interference from above. The game is being changed to suit blanket television coverage. VAR is part of that. The majority of supporters don’t like VAR. Has VAR made football better? I would say not. A small increase in the percentage of ‘correct’ decisions when balanced against the negative effects, to me it’s not worth it.

Was I annoyed that West Ham got a goal against that hadn’t crossed the line? Yes. Was I annoyed that Wilko punched one in against Bristol Rovers? No, I was absolutely delighted.

And before anyone says it, yes I understand what VAR is and how it works. I just don’t like it. I’m against it, and always was against it.

 

[junos_boots]

or, you find a pragmatic solution, such as safe standing

Fully agree, but all seater stadia never killed atmosphere because people ignored the rules to a large extent - especially away fans. Stadia still safer as you dont get localized overcrowding anymore but my shins got a lot more grief off the backs of seats back in my younger days though

 

[UgoAfro]

Was I annoyed that Wilko punched one in against Bristol Rovers? No, I was absolutely delighted.

Me too.

 

[Nano]

I'm sick of watching games being decided by **** refereeing. No VAR is one of the worst things about the championship. The more help they get the better.

The spontaneous celebration thing is mostly nonsense. People still celebrate, sometimes they get to celebrate multiple times when a goal is confirmed. I have celebrated at matches loads of times before I've noticed a linesman's flag. It doesn't ruin anything

 

[El Guapo]

Money, lawyers and VAR have sucked the beauty out of football.

The end.

 

[newusername]

Three appeals? Heaven forbid that. All that would happen is that you would get the manager appealing against every goal they concede and nobody will be able to celebrate a goal spontaneously while we wait for the VAR system to check.

They check all goals anyway in the EPL.

My only concern about allowing a manager to indicate they want to challenge a decision would be if it was used late on to disrupte a game, time waste and ruin momentum, allowing a team under the cosh to regroup receive instructions and see out the result.

In the NFL in the last 2 minutes they remove the right of coaches to challenge, with checks being done automatically by the booth. I think there'd have to be something similar in football, like last 5 & added time.

 

[NYboro]

I'm sick of watching games being decided by **** refereeing. No VAR is one of the worst things about the championship. The more help they get the better.

The spontaneous celebration thing is mostly nonsense. People still celebrate, sometimes they get to celebrate multiple times when a goal is confirmed. I have celebrated at matches loads of times before I've noticed a linesman's flag. It doesn't ruin anything

Nonsense. As you jump up, you look across at the lino to see if he's raised his flag. None of the tedium of waiting for a VAR check. I have serious doubts of whether I'd renew my season ticket if VAR was going to be in use. It ruins watching on TV. Even worse live.

 

[B_G]

I like the idea of 2 or 3 coaches challenges. It would show managers up for being the petulant cry babies they are.

Would also show them that it get it wrong far more often than the referee.

I would love to see a post match interview with Klopp after he'd burned his 3 challenges in the first 10 mins then conceded an offside goal

 

[Capybara]

Nonsense. As you jump up, you look across at the lino to see if he's raised his flag.

Not on this topic but I do wonder what people watch half the time. People around me will see 'something going on' off the ball as clear as day which I never see yet the same people are cheering a 'goal', long after the assistant referee has raised their flag which I've spotted straight away.

 

[BoroMart]

There is far more interference from above. The game is being changed to suit blanket television coverage.

I don't deny that from a strategic part of the business that is true....but its irrelevant on the operational activity of applying the laws of the game correctly. Both your statement and my statement are true, they're not mutually exclusive.

 

[BoroMart]

The majority of supporters don’t like VAR.

But if you ask fans "are you happy with the quality of referees and feel your side gets fair and equal decisions over a season" they will ALSO state no. One statistic on the number of happy fans, in isolation isn't reflective of anything other than the general negativity and self-pity of most footy fans. It isn't a complete picture on VAR.

Has VAR made football better? I would say not.

I would say yes. We all have opinions.

A small increase in the percentage of ‘correct’ decisions when balanced against the negative effects, to me it’s not worth it.

According to statistical analysis, 18% of decisions prior to VAR were wrong. It's down to 6% with VAR. That's a massive decrease in incorrect decision making, not a small change. 2/3rd of wrong decisions eradicated....if they could speed up the process and automate some, then surely thats a good thing. I mean nearly 1 in 5 decisions being incorrect in a low scoring sport, that makes it an absolute crapshoot at times.

Was I annoyed that West Ham got a goal against that hadn’t crossed the line? Yes. Was I annoyed that Wilko punched one in against Bristol Rovers? No

Is there any evidence that all clubs equally have bad decisions go for or against them? No Are all bad decisions equal in consequence? Also no. Who knows what would have happened in the UEFA Cup final had VAR existed and Viduka had a penalty for being smashed into from behind. Leading to a 1-1 score at half time.

I'm sick of watching games being decided by **** refereeing. No VAR is one of the worst things about the championship. The more help they get the better.

There is probably a greater need further down the leagues you go, as the standard of ref is so much poorer.