Electric cars to cost more to run then petrol/ diesel cars

The_Tiler said:
The £100 cost you quoted, does that include the extortionate price of coffe and snacks that the service stations charge? Or do you take a flask and a butty box?
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two greggs slices and a diet coke for less than 3 quid.....not included in cost
 
1finny said:
Much appreciated - I will download those apps. I’ve got the Enyaq 80.
Just getting used to it.
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Nice car that. I thing the VAG group cars currently do the best blend of traditional car and EV. Still need to work a lot on their software but that will come and they are still really well built cars.

Looking at your charging curve, if you’re going really long distance best to plan chargers where you arrive at 10% and leave at around 83% it starts dropping off after that. It seems illogical but it’s better to leave just after 80% to get to your next charger than sit to 100% and go further. You’ll be quicker that way.

When you get used to it can you let me know if you would recommend? My Oh is in the market for a mid size suv and I’m trying to convince her to go electric
 
Laughing said:
I would assume, but dont know, the astronomical cost of nuclear plants means they wouldn't be a very short term solution. I don't know how long one stays in service for but, assuming 40 years, that's its tied to nuclear for that period of time.

Again I don't know but instead of building nuclear power stations the same money could be sunk into wind and solar.

Nuclear fusion is on its way too. Its not entirely clean but much better than fission and doesn't have the half life issue.
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Is nuclear fusion a likely thing? I’m not a fan of nine renewable energy ( or “old sun” if you like) but it seems to me if you can make it work the energy density is perfect. That is you get a lot of energy per amount of fuel.
 
Ref other costs of EVs/ICE

No one has talked about insurance. My petrol car is £204 to insure for fully comp, I read EV are more expensive to insure which balances out the service cost difference?

Doesn't the battery need replacing in EVs after so many miles. the battery in a EV is effectively the engine. How many petrols/diesels need new engines?

Higher interest charges will make buying any car more expensive to buy/own - unless you pay outright. EVs are more expensive to lease/buy with a loan etc in general, so this extra financing will be more outlay in a high interest environment. The argument in the past was say saving 40% on fuel costs covered the extra finance needed. At presetn EVs are been hit with a doubkle whammy - more expensive finance and more expensive electricity relative to petrol/diesel.

I am not against EVs, they certainly reduce carbon in the atmosphere which helps us all, they are quieter and they are to some more convenient (where you can do all your charging at your home and only need the car for journeys of less than 100 miles - for all EVs).
 
Brian Marwood said:
I was told years ago that nuclear fusion doesn't work because of E=MC2, now I've listened to the Big Audio Dynamite song loads of times and still don't understand the reasoning.
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If you look up in the sky you will see a good example of fusion energy.
 
Redwurzel said:
Ref other costs of EVs/ICE

No one has talked about insurance. My petrol car is £204 to insure for fully comp, I read EV are more expensive to insure which balances out the service cost difference?

Doesn't the battery need replacing in EVs after so many miles. the battery in a EV is effectively the engine. How many petrols/diesels need new engines?

Higher interest charges will make buying any car more expensive to buy/own - unless you pay outright. EVs are more expensive to lease/buy with a loan etc in general, so this extra financing will be more outlay in a high interest environment. The argument in the past was say saving 40% on fuel costs covered the extra finance needed. At presetn EVs are been hit with a doubkle whammy - more expensive finance and more expensive electricity relative to petrol/diesel.

I am not against EVs, they certainly reduce carbon in the atmosphere which helps us all, they are quieter and they are to some more convenient (where you can do all your charging at your home and only need the car for journeys of less than 100 miles - for all EVs).
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My EV does cost a bit more to insure than my diesel car, but then its worth a lot more, so (and I can only speak for myself, which of course is only an anecdote and not data) but it looks about right based on the value of the vehicle to me anyway.

As for batteries, there was a lot of worry about this in the early days, none of which has really come to pass ... 2nd hand EV market is (or was last I looked) very buoyant, cars are holding their value (although its helped by new EVs being very long on lead times) ... after 4 years and 53,000 miles my batteries seem as good as they were on the day bought them ... I think most manufacturers are doing 8-10 years plus warranty on batteries now (which is already up from where they were comfortable with in the past).

However I don't think its entirely fair ... the older an ICE car gets (IME anyway) the more work it can need ... more and more bits need replacing ... yeah if you keep servicing and look after it you may well not have to replace your engine but you can need to spend out good chunks of cash on it as it ages ... EV service costs are minimal, so many fewer parts to go wrong.
 
Redwurzel said:
No one has talked about insurance. My petrol car is £204 to insure for fully comp, I read EV are more expensive to insure which balances out the service cost difference?
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Not for me. Cost less for my Tesla 3 than for my Peugeot 3008, despite costing 15k more.
 
Redwurzel said:
Doesn't the battery need replacing in EVs after so many miles. the battery in a EV is effectively the engine. How many petrols/diesels need new engines?
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lifespan of batteries is pretty good:

According to Elon Musk on Twitter, Tesla car batteries are supposed to technically last for 300,000 to 500,000 miles, which is 1,500 battery cycles. That's between 22 and 37 years for the average car driver, who, according to the Department of Transportation, drives about 13,500 miles per year.5 Apr 2022
 
Redwurzel said:
Doesn't the battery need replacing in EVs after so many miles. the battery in a EV is effectively the engine. How many petrols/diesels need new engines?
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another myth. EV batteries last a long time. In fact companies have been set up to recycle old batteries but they are struggling because there are so few
 
m3t4tr0n said:
My EV does cost a bit more to insure than my diesel car, but then its worth a lot more, so (and I can only speak for myself, which of course is only an anecdote and not data) but it looks about right based on the value of the vehicle to me anyway.

As for batteries, there was a lot of worry about this in the early days, none of which has really come to pass ... 2nd hand EV market is (or was last I looked) very buoyant, cars are holding their value (although its helped by new EVs being very long on lead times) ... after 4 years and 53,000 miles my batteries seem as good as they were on the day bought them ... I think most manufacturers are doing 8-10 years plus warranty on batteries now (which is already up from where they were comfortable with in the past).

However I don't think its entirely fair ... the older an ICE car gets (IME anyway) the more work it can need ... more and more bits need replacing ... yeah if you keep servicing and look after it you may well not have to replace your engine but you can need to spend out good chunks of cash on it as it ages ... EV service costs are minimal, so many fewer parts to go wrong.
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Yeah that’s a key thing. Batteries degrade over time. Yes. As do ICE engines. I wouldn’t expect a 2000 mile diesel to be anywhere near as efficient as it used to be. And EV drive trains go for so so long. Motors are so simple compared to ICE engines
 
Redwurzel said:
Ref

I am not against EVs, they certainly reduce carbon in the atmosphere which helps us all, they are quieter and they are to some more convenient (where you can do all your charging at your home and only need the car for journeys of less than 100 miles - for all EVs).
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Soemthing else that needs clarifying: yes If you can charge at home it’s a no brainier to get an EV but even if you can’t it’s still probably more convenient than an ice vehicle. Never having to go for petrol.

Oh and I regularly do 140 mile round trips to my in laws so the “journeys of 100 miles” thing is plain wrong now. It’s what you could have said against EV about 10 years ago but is now incorrect
 
Is Tesla typical on battery life of all EVs? I get the impression they are the premier league of EVs, like Mercedes in the past for ICE vehicles?

I agree if battery life is 300,000 its no worry, few vehicles of any type do those miles.

Boro Mart - you haven't replied on your thoughts on future road pricing.
 
Redwurzel said:
Is Tesla typical on battery life of all EVs? I get the impression they are the premier league of EVs, like Mercedes in the past for ICE vehicles?

I agree if battery life is 300,000 its no worry, few vehicles of any type do those miles.

Boro Mart - you haven't replied on your thoughts on future road pricing.
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Tesla of course have the best battery tech, but other manufacturers are catchup fast, there's plenty of money in that market, so I'd expect life expectancy of batteries to all be above 500k miles within 5 years from now and premier to be over 750k

Didn't see the future road pricing question, what was it?
 
SmallTown said:
Not quite true. I no longer have a home charger and it’s still cheaper than ICE. I would wager not a single EV owner charges exclusively at rapid chargers. These fud, anti EV studies are always heavily weighted against the EV in whatever way possible. I remember the study from America which laughably added lost man hours to the cost, as if we all just sit there staring at our cars (mine is on a cheap ac charger as we speak and I’m now where near it)

The problem is people actually believe and repeat these
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Why do you no longer have a home charger by the way? I seem to recall you enjoyed free charging so do you have a company facility?
 
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Zoophonic said:
Why do you no longer have a home charger by the way? I seem to recall you enjoyed free charging so do you have a company facility?
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I have moved sadly. Literally today. The new house doesn't have a charger.

Currently negotiating with the Landlord about if I can get a charge point fitted. I have free charging at one of my offices, which is a boon and reduced cost charging (similar to overnight prices). I think the latter will start to become a thing: Companies not paying for your charging but giving you reduced rates as an incentive.

I also now live about a minutes work from a source London AC charger so will probably use that until I can get a home charger fitted.

I acknowldge I'm lucky living in London, there are AC slow chargers pretty much everywhere near here.
 
BillyBoyStu said:
nissan-opens-10-million-battery-assembly-facility-in-sunderland-to-support-electrification-programme
"The Nissan Qashqai, the record-breaking original crossover, is now offered with Nissan’s unique e-POWER system, a first for the company in Europe. Its B-segment stablemate, the Nissan Juke, is now equipped with an advanced hybrid powertrain."
Was going to put this on the Good News thread but it would have just got ignored!
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I don't think new hybrids count as good news. They are overly complicated, expesnive to make and, of course, still burn petrol. There was a point when Hybirds made sense, and Toyota knew this. However EV have become so much more feasible the idea of getting both and EV AND a petrol engine seems like a bit of a stop gap
 
SmallTown said:
I don't think new hybrids count as good news. They are overly complicated, expesnive to make and, of course, still burn petrol. There was a point when Hybirds made sense, and Toyota knew this. However EV have become so much more feasible the idea of getting both and EV AND a petrol engine seems like a bit of a stop gap
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There's just not enough space in a hybrid. Two different power sources means you have to have space for a battery and a fuel tank which usually means losing half the boot or raising the cabin floor making it cramped.

I had one before I got an EV and the boot was tiny. I know a few other people that had different model hybrids and they all had the same issue.

The fuel saving and the benefits of having electric acceleration were good but an EV is just better.
 
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