Electric cars to cost more to run then petrol/ diesel cars

I don't think new hybrids count as good news. They are overly complicated, expesnive to make and, of course, still burn petrol. There was a point when Hybirds made sense, and Toyota knew this. However EV have become so much more feasible the idea of getting both and EV AND a petrol engine seems like a bit of a stop gap
But surely this is good news - from the article
“Since LEAF started production in 2011, staff at Nissan Sunderland Plant have undergone more than two million hours of training dedicated to manufacturing electrified vehicles, with more planned in the coming months and years.”
 
Tesla of course have the best battery tech, but other manufacturers are catchup fast, there's plenty of money in that market, so I'd expect life expectancy of batteries to all be above 500k miles within 5 years from now and premier to be over 750k

Didn't see the future road pricing question, what was it?
See below

(Boro Mart) "Andy - do you think Electric vehicles will have to pay the equivalent tax as ICE vehicles in the future?"

My fault you didn't answer - I called you Andy for some strange reason.
 
A lot of what I have read says that the battery’s can’t be reused and the minerals used to make them can’t be re used.
Not sure where you're getting your information but as far as I'm aware, the majority of EV batteries can be reused or recycled.

Unfortunately only a small percentage are recycled worldwide at the moment but that's partly because the industrial processes for it have not been fully commercialized yet.

However some manufacturers are already taking the lead on this.

In the case of Tesla for instance, and as clearly stated on their website:
None of our scrapped lithium-ion batteries go to landfilling, and 100% are recycled.

Tesla battery recycling

Renault are also recycling all their used batteries, according to them.

EV batteries that are not immediately recycled can also be repurposed and reused - both Nissan and Volkswagen reuse their old EV batteries for automated guided vehicles in their factories, for example, while VW is also starting a battery recycling plant.

See details in the BBC article below:

Electric cars: What will happen to all the dead batteries?

An increasing number of used EV batteries are also being reused for storage of excess produced solar energy by home consumers - I have actually read posts from people who are doing this, who provided images and schematics of how they set up their systems to do this.

The article below from the Union of Concerned Scientists explains some of the factors involved.

The Second-Life of Used EV Batteries
 
But surely this is good news - from the article
“Since LEAF started production in 2011, staff at Nissan Sunderland Plant have undergone more than two million hours of training dedicated to manufacturing electrified vehicles, with more planned in the coming months and years.”
It is with regards to the leaf, yes. It’s just the Japanese car industry are going down the wrong route with hybrids. How many decent Pure EV do they make? The crushingly expensive Honda e, the cheap and cheerful leaf and… erm?
 
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Not sure where you're getting your information but as far as I'm aware, the majority of EV batteries can be reused or recycled.

Unfortunately only a small percentage are recycled worldwide at the moment but that's partly because the industrial processes for it have not been fully commercialized yet.

However some manufacturers are already taking the lead on this.

In the case of Tesla for instance, and as clearly stated on their website:


Tesla battery recycling

Renault are also recycling all their used batteries, according to them.

EV batteries that are not immediately recycled can also be repurposed and reused - both Nissan and Volkswagen reuse their old EV batteries for automated guided vehicles in their factories, for example, while VW is also starting a battery recycling plant.

See details in the BBC article below:

Electric cars: What will happen to all the dead batteries?

An increasing number of used EV batteries are also being reused for storage of excess produced solar energy by home consumers - I have actually read posts from people who are doing this, who provided images and schematics of how they set up their systems to do this.

The article below from the Union of Concerned Scientists explains some of the factors involved.

The Second-Life of Used EV Batteries
Isn't the real issue with batteries, and indeed a lot of resources, used for both ev and ice vehicles, that we will run out of resources even if we re-use older batteries that are coming to the end of their lives? The fact that they are nearing end of life, suggests that they have a finite useful span.

I am not sure where that leaves us in 100 years with the ridiculous appetite we have for consumerism. We will lurch from one crisis to another. We have to either stop breeding or stop consuming more than we need. It's not an ice v ev argument its humanity v the planet and all other life on it. In the last 100 years nearly 40% of animals on the planet have become extinct.
 
See below

(Boro Mart) "Andy - do you think Electric vehicles will have to pay the equivalent tax as ICE vehicles in the future?"

My fault you didn't answer - I called you Andy for some strange reason.
There's no fault, we all have the odd brain fart, sure I'll answer for 'Andy' :ROFLMAO: . I do think that as the cost of EVs reduces due to inevitable manufacturing efficiencies, that the government will want it's slice of it by increasing taxes to something akin to todays ICE costs.....but they will, at the same time massively increase ICE taxes to push phasing them out.

The cost of EVs is less than lifetime costs of ICE right now, even with expensive purchase costs. I think it could stay below even with tax increases, which will be offset by cheaper reduced purchase costs, more home solar charging, maybe battery leasing or some other cost reducing business model.
 
We have to either stop breeding
This is the crux, there are already too many people to safely consume the planets resources. The difficulty with reducing, even through disincentivising of having kids, is that there is an economic collapse tied in. Without growth the markets fail, capitalism is strangling the planet, but won't take it's filthy hands of it's throat.
 
This is the crux, there are already too many people to safely consume the planets resources. The difficulty with reducing, even through disincentivising of having kids, is that there is an economic collapse tied in. Without growth the markets fail, capitalism is strangling the planet, but won't take it's filthy hands of it's throat.
You raise a very good point about capitalism being the driver of consumerism Mart.
 
This is the crux, there are already too many people to safely consume the planets resources. The difficulty with reducing, even through disincentivising of having kids, is that there is an economic collapse tied in. Without growth the markets fail, capitalism is strangling the planet, but won't take it's filthy hands of it's throat.
I’ve been laughed off this board on more than one occasion regards limiting numbers. It is the only thing that will save the planet- less humans on it
 
I’ve been laughed off this board on more than one occasion regards limiting numbers. It is the only thing that will save the planet- less humans on it
It took me a decade to come to terms with that idea, but I can't see any other solution, and that means accepting that markets cannot infinitely increase in value.
 
I’ve been laughed off this board on more than one occasion regards limiting numbers. It is the only thing that will save the planet- less humans on it
This is almost entirely inaccurate. First part is probably semantics but the planet is almost certain (barring unthinkable scale asteroid collisions) to be absolutely fine for many billions of years. The human race however is another story. Check out the George Carlin bit on this topic.

Another thing you seem to ignore is that the majority of the world’s resources are being hoarded by a minuscule number of humans. There are not enough “available” resources to support the human race but, if the world was an equitable place, the resources could comfortably support a population around 3 times larger than currently.

Evidence

Eat the rich.
 
This is almost entirely inaccurate. First part is probably semantics but the planet is almost certain (barring unthinkable scale asteroid collisions) to be absolutely fine for many billions of years. The human race however is another story. Check out the George Carlin bit on this topic.

Another thing you seem to ignore is that the majority of the world’s resources are being hoarded by a minuscule number of humans. There are not enough “available” resources to support the human race but, if the world was an equitable place, the resources could comfortably support a population around 3 times larger than currently.

Evidence

Eat the rich.
Doesn’t make sense.
We are killing the planet, that’s non negotiable. The planet will in turn kill us.
The second bit is abit silly. We can save the planet if we do all of those things. There’s as much chance of us relocating on mars. It’s not doable. 5000-15000k, I’d have to choose between away games and work!!
 
Doesn’t make sense.
We are killing the planet, that’s non negotiable. The planet will in turn kill us.
The second bit is abit silly. We can save the planet if we do all of those things. There’s as much chance of us relocating on mars. It’s not doable. 5000-15000k, I’d have to choose between away games and work!!
We aren’t killing the planet. It will wipe out the human race and within a couple of hundred years it will be like we never existed. The planet will flourish once again.

I agree the second part is unlikely to happen and it’s because of engrained, entitled attitudes such as yours (which may have been partly tongue in cheek).
 
Isn't the real issue with batteries, and indeed a lot of resources, used for both ev and ice vehicles, that we will run out of resources even if we re-use older batteries that are coming to the end of their lives? The fact that they are nearing end of life, suggests that they have a finite useful span.

I am not sure where that leaves us in 100 years with the ridiculous appetite we have for consumerism. We will lurch from one crisis to another. We have to either stop breeding or stop consuming more than we need. It's not an ice v ev argument its humanity v the planet and all other life on it. In the last 100 years nearly 40% of animals on the planet have become extinct.
Seems unlikely Laughing although the estimates of how many animals and species varies vastly. Do you have a source please.
 
Seems unlikely Laughing although the estimates of how many animals and species varies vastly. Do you have a source please.
On animal species extinction? It was in national geographic last year. I don't remember where the study came from originally. If I get some time over the weekend I'll dig out my copy and look.
 
We aren’t killing the planet. It will wipe out the human race and within a couple of hundred years it will be like we never existed. The planet will flourish once again.
I'd have to suggest that you haven't really understood the concept of the runaway greenhouse effect.
 
I'd have to suggest that you haven't really understood the concept of the runaway greenhouse effect.
I have considered it and humans would need to burn all of the coal, oil, gas, tar shale and tar sands.

Goldblatt and Watson (2022):
The good news is that almost all lines of evidence lead us to believe that it is unlikely to be possible, even in principle, to trigger a runaway greenhouse by addition of non condensible greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide to the atmosphere.

Let me just add that I’m absolutely for reducing energy emissions and usage. I was taking umbrage with the assertion that the only means of avoiding climate catastrophe (for humans) is by population control. Demonstrably not true. Killing a few hundred billionaires would do the job just fine.
 
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I have considered it and humans would need to burn all of the coal, oil, gas, tar shale and tar sands.
I'm not sure that's true at all, they would need to burn MORE, not ALL, and since the human race is expanding and has been increasing the total burn for decades then eventually it would head beyond the point of no return. Great you've found one quote that just happens to be one of the first you find if you put "runaway greenhouse" into google, but that isn't proven science, there's lots of concern from a huge number of reputable scientists that a tipping point is reached where it's inevitable
 
Seems unlikely Laughing although the estimates of how many animals and species varies vastly. Do you have a source please.
Re-read the article last night Millbrook and you are right. What the article actually says is 40% of anima ls have died. Or there has been a reduction of wild animals of 40%.

Edit... I did look to see how many species have become extinct and the numbers vary massively. I mean orders of magnitude. I get its difficult to know when a species goes extinct but I read one be figure of 190k extinctions in the last decade and another that said 10 in the same decade
 
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