Muttley
Well-known member
According to the ONS, suicides went down during the first lockdown.inevitable suicides
According to the ONS, suicides went down during the first lockdown.inevitable suicides
I'm sure that's true. I would be amazed if they don't go up in this (third?) lockdown though, when you add the seasonal impact into the mix, and the 'fatigue' aspect.According to the ONS, suicides went down during the first lockdown.
she wanted restrictions lifted in the summer, if the government had listened to her public whining we would be at 150k deaths now. Yet here she is again, wanting restrictions reduced. That tells you everything you need to know about this vile woman.
These are the actual comments, which to be fair are nothing like what was 'paraphrased' in the OP. She didn't mention obesity?
"The vast majority were very elderly and had comorbidities."
why would they go up, if they didn't go up un first lockdown? I mean the fact it is winter irrelevant as 'going up' would take into account the seasonal variance it's compared againstI'm sure that's true. I would be amazed if they don't go up in this (third?) lockdown though, when you add the seasonal impact into the mix, and the 'fatigue' aspect.
We had restrictions lifted in the summer, was that the wrong thing to do? I can't imagine what state we'd be in now if we'd had 10+ solid months of this at this point. Less deaths? Maybe, but maybe lots of other deaths for other reasons (and an even worse economy and much more poverty).she wanted restrictions lifted in the summer, if the government had listened to her public whining we would be at 150k deaths now. Yet here she is again, wanting restrictions reduced. That tells you everything you need to know about this vile woman.
Indeed, that's a good point. There may be no way of knowing whether its purely down to winter, or a combination of winter and covid, if indeed they do increase. But the same can be said of lots of these statistics. There is no definitive answer. There are millions of facts and statistics, and then exponentially more different interpretations of them.why would they go up, if they didn't go up un first lockdown? I mean the fact it is winter irrelevant as 'going up' would take into account the seasonal variance it's compared against
Let's just be clear about what I'm saying.........she wanted the pandemic "declared as over". She wanted ALL restrictions lifted, that would have been an absolute disaster in terms of life and to be honest every business except undertakers. So, I 100% stand by my comments that she is vile, because she was fully aware that this wasn't over but was more interested in her and her brexit beau earning money than poor people and their pesky right to life.We had restrictions lifted in the summer, was that the wrong thing to do? I can't imagine what state we'd be in now if we'd had 10+ solid months of this at this point. Less deaths? Maybe, but maybe lots of other deaths for other reasons (and an even worse economy and much more poverty).
I can't remember when she said them, but there was a point where we were down to zero deaths and the government (along with the CHO's blessing) encouraged us all to go out and eat in restaurants MORE than we otherwise would have. You could forgive someone for thinking we had come to the end of the road at that point I think.Let's just be clear about what I'm saying.........she wanted the pandemic "declared as over". She wanted ALL restrictions lifted, that would have been an absolute disaster in terms of life and to be honest every business except undertakers.
excess deaths are above and beyond a normal year, where people freely intermingle and spread viruses. It's clear that allowing some mingling has spread the disease, it's clear this is way more contagious and has a higher morbidity than flu's and has long lasting impacts on survivors. The only outstanding question is by how much these negatives are bigger.There may be no way of knowing whether its purely down to winter, or a combination of winter and covid, if indeed they do increase.
I'm not sure how reliable excess deaths are in support of lockdown specifically though, because if you believe what you read (and I take it all with a pinch of salt) there are lots of illnesses going undiagnosed *because* of lockdowns. I've no idea though. Basically, all I want to see is a balanced approach that benefits society as a whole.excess deaths are above and beyond a normal year, where people freely intermingle and spread viruses. It's clear that allowing some mingling has spread the disease, it's clear this is way more contagious and has a higher morbidity than flu's and has long lasting impacts on survivors. The only outstanding question is by how much these negatives are bigger.
No you couldn't. The numbers were low because we had gone through 3 strict months of isolation, not because we had herd immunity or a vaccine. Declaring the pandemic as over is NOT valid comment at that time. There was zero validity to it. It was clear that if you removed the measures that had protected us, the infections would skyrocket again. this isn't rocket science, she knows this now and knew it then. She was just more interested in her and Richard Tice's financial investments.I can't remember when she said them, but there was a point where we were down to zero deaths and the government (along with the CHO's blessing) encouraged us all to go out and eat in restaurants MORE than we otherwise would have. You could forgive someone for thinking we had come to the end of the road at that point I think.
I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -
1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause
If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
I don’t for one minute think anyone apart from you and one or two others actually thought without seeing it she said “a load of old fogeys’s and fat knackers” but having just watched it again myself that’s EXACTLY what she meant!!
These are the actual comments, which to be fair are nothing like what was 'paraphrased' in the OP. She didn't mention obesity?
"The vast majority were very elderly and had comorbidities."
She literally didn't mention obesity?I don’t for one minute think anyone apart from you and one or two others actually thought without seeing it she said “a load of old fogeys’s and fat knackers” but having just watched it again myself that’s EXACTLY what she meant!!
Ok. Well I can't imagine I will, nor do I want to, convince you she is a good person. I don't know a lot about her personal life really, and I've never really liked her, but she is just a woman with an opinion. If the government ignored her last summer, her influence doesn't particularly worry me.No you couldn't. The numbers were low because we had gone through 3 strict months of isolation, not because we had herd immunity or a vaccine. Declaring the pandemic as over is NOT valid comment at that time. There was zero validity to it. It was clear that if you removed the measures that had protected us, the infections would skyrocket again. this isn't rocket science, she knows this now and knew it then. She was just more interested in her and Richard Tice's financial investments.