Elizabeth Oakshot!!

Nowt wrong with Hartley-Brewer she's doing a grand job of exposing the harms done by lockdowns despite horrendous abuse and vitriol by the fanatics.
 
magic said:
Nowt wrong with Hartley-Brewer she's doing a grand job of exposing the harms done by lockdowns despite horrendous abuse and vitriol by the fanatics.
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'Nowt wrong with Hartley-Brewer'.

Really, nothing at all?
 
WoodallServices said:
Just watching the paper review on Sky and naturally the main topic is 100,000 dead and she has just said most have them would have died anyway and basically the rest were fat knackers.
What an odious woman and a pathetic excuse for a human being she really is!🤬

Sorry edited......the cows name is Isabel.
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I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -

1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause


If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
 
Soutra said:
1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause
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Statistics are not facts.
 
Borobarmy said:
Her whole aim is to get everybody talking about her , which is exactly what we’re doing now . Just steer clear of her and her like
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Her main aim is libertarianism so that the rich get richer and more powerful. She is a Trump fan who cost the British Ambassador to the US to lose his job by acquiring and publishing his internal emails which questioned Trump's fitness for office and potential damage to the UK. I mean, come on , how right was he and how insidious was her behaviour to cost him his job. She wrote 'Call me Dave' and 'Bad Boys of Brexit', I mean a biog for the PM that has ruined the political landscape for the last 5 years and probably the next 20, and something that idolised Dominic Cummings and the clusterf..k that is Brexit. How can someone persistently be so often on the wrong side of history unless they are self-absorbed and destructive people?!
 
Soutra said:
I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -

1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause


If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
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Spiegelhalter statistically looked at deaths from Covid-19 and came to the conclusion that the average person with Covid-19 lost 8-10 years of life. (R4 Today programme on 18 January.) I was surprised that we've lost over a million years of life so far.
 
Soutra said:
1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause
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2 - irrelevant, there are many dying less than that, many, many people. If half the people are 93 and half are 73 does that somehow mean we should all just go back to living a normal life and forget about robbing people of 10 years of life?
3 - Incorrect, it's within 28 days of a confirmed covid infection. If it's anyone with covid on their death certificate it would be higher. We've been here, There was a point about 6 months ago where the government changed the rules and took 15k people (or whatever the number was) off the count, overnight. The impact of long covid and cost to life is not yet known, but when we have told people to go and mix in pubs and restaurants, and go see family at christmas, our infection rates will be high, and the long covid sufferers and deaths will be amongst the highest per capita in the world.
 
Soutra said:
I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -

1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause


If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
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Soutra - you insensitive Knob
 
BoroMart said:
2 - irrelevant, there are many dying less than that, many, many people. If half the people are 93 and half are 73 does that somehow mean we should all just go back to living a normal life and forget about robbing people of 10 years of life?
3 - Incorrect, it's within 28 days of a confirmed covid infection. If it's anyone with covid on their death certificate it would be higher. We've been here, There was a point about 6 months ago where the government changed the rules and took 15k people (or whatever the number was) off the count, overnight. The impact of long covid and cost to life is not yet known, but when we have told people to go and mix in pubs and restaurants, and go see family at christmas, our infection rates will be high, and the long covid sufferers and deaths will be amongst the highest per capita in the world.
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2 - I said the modal age of people dying of Covid is 84 according to the ONS, so it can't be that half of them are 93 and the rest 73.
3. OK, you are right, it's people who have tested positive within 28 days. I don't understand the point you are making though.
 
Soutra said:
2 - I said the modal age of people dying of Covid is 84 according to the ONS, so it can't be that half of them are 93 and the rest 73.
3. OK, you are right, it's people who have tested positive within 28 days. I don't understand the point you are making though.
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2 - that was a hypothetical example, this isn't 100k 84 year olds, there are tens of thousands below that, and so what, is the life of an 84 year old worth nothing? You do realise that these healthier 84 year olds that would have lived to 94 dying will now cause the average life expectancy to significantly fall also. That's how statistics work. Just throwing a single figure out and pinning your personal view to that doesn't usually turn out well.

3 - The point I'm making is that far more people will have died because of contracting covid. 28 days is arbitrary. Many people have died directly of covid after 28 years and many more have had life limiting damage to their lungs that will have already caught up with them. Yet more will have died early of some other issues, exacerbated by catching covid. The blood of all these people is on the hands of a government that encouraged the general populous to go to pubs, and eat out to help out, and mix at christmas, and go back to school for 1 day. That's the point, the government have robbed many more than 100k people of their lives.
 
Soutra said:
I think it's dreadfully insensitive to say it like that, however -

1. The average lifespan of people in the UK is about 83 years
2. The average age of people dying WITH Covid is 83 years, and the modal age is 84
3. The 100k number includes everyone whose death certificate mentions Covid, irrespective of the major cause


If you can reconcile these three facts with Isabel Oakeshott being wrong, then please explain it to me. I'm not suggesting what she says is wise or compassionate, but as far as I can see, she is right.
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This fag packet golf club bore explanation demonstrates everything wrong with the denier fanatics.

The metric you are scrambling for is life expectancy of a person dependent on what age point you start at. Using 83 for simplicity someone reaching that age should expect a further 6-7 years of life. That's now gone. All that time taken away from them due to mistake after mistake

& as for the "irrespective of major cause" b***ks 2 points explain away the UK excess deaths this year which are now over 106k or the fact that at the end of June last year the ONS explicitly said that at that point of the 50,335 deaths with Covid on the death certificate 93% were as a direct result OF Covid.

It goes way beyond sensitive and is simply b***ks
 
Soutra said:
How are you supposed to debate things if someone immediately resorts to name calling? If Isabel oakeshott is insensitive or callous, then fine, say so and I'd agree, but explain why she is wrong.
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so the paraphrase attributed to her is "she has just said most have them would have died anyway and basically the rest were fat knackers." - everyone dies, the claim that most would die anyway is superfluous as a justification for not counting their loss as meaningful. Secondly, being overweight doesn't make ones life less relevant, their lifestyle may have limited their lifespan, but covid has limited it further. Her attempts to put the blame on lifestyle choices is an attempt to absolve the blame on the government and project it to the unhealthy, overweight citizens. The reality is if the government had done it's job and protected people from a deadly infection then those the majority of those 'fat people' would still be alive and some might have gotten healthier through being scared of this disease.
 
Soutra said:
2 - I said the modal age of people dying of Covid is 84 according to the ONS, so it can't be that half of them are 93 and the rest 73.
3. OK, you are right, it's people who have tested positive within 28 days. I don't understand the point you are making though.
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Look at the Spiegelhalter report where he concludes the average Covid-19 death loses 8-10 years of life. So some at 102 lose no years but the 28 year old who died with no underlying health conditions lost 53 years. Those with diabetes, obese or ethnically more effected it'll be somewhere in between.

At year 0 a person might be expected to live 81 years. At 85 years old a person might be expected to live till they're 95 years old (on average).

Over 100,000 people have died by both ONS death certificates and the 28 days after a positive test. The ONS figures for Covid-19 and Flu/pneumonia are below. Dark blue is primary cause, light blue mentioned as a secondary cause.

Screenshot_20210127-094317.jpg
 
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So I caught the end of a piece on R4 this morning with some scientist who had a report on covid, why people died, what "kind" of people they were etc.. I've not been able to find a news story anywhere about it.

His basic premises were... (i) "public health" in the UK is a mess, (ii) underfunding in the NHS for 10 years, (iii) privatisation of track & trace, (iv) obesity & (v) health and fitness of UK population

Anyone know who this guy was or where I could read more ?

The interviewer was pushing for weigh-loss surgery on the NHS as a solution (bizarre)... although there's no doubt in my mind that obersity is a massive part of this.
 
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