EU making a pigs breakfast of vaccination programme

Daily figures reported yesterday:-

No. of 1st doses given - 491,970, cumulative 6,353,321
No. of 2nd doses given - 1,043, cumulative 469,660

I'm not able to work out in my own mind what will happen in 6 - 12 weeks time when millions of 2nd doses need to administered alongside millions of 1st doses.
 
Tell us the UK vaccination programme is a great success when it has been fully rolled out and we can go back to normal living.

Last news report I heard we are running out of it.

I think it’s a wait and see from me.

And what does it matter to us what the EU are doing?

That might never happen.
 
Daily figures reported yesterday:-

No. of 1st doses given - 491,970, cumulative 6,353,321
No. of 2nd doses given - 1,043, cumulative 469,660

I'm not able to work out in my own mind what will happen in 6 - 12 weeks time when millions of 2nd doses need to administered alongside millions of 1st doses.

Johnson will "throw a dead cat" to the media, who will focus on it instead, and this will be resigned to page 5 or something.
 
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I would have preferred an earlier lockdown/ lesser infection than an accelerated vaccination, but our government seem to be against proactive control measures. But, that's not to say the accelerated vaccination isn't very welcome in the UK, it very much is, and the progress of it's roll out has been unreal, which is about the only positive I can give the government, but credit where credit is due on this one.

I do think every nation will have spring/ summer to catch up, when infections will naturally drop again (if managed correctly), then the big test of the vaccine will come next winter I expect, and I expect most of the EU will have similar percentages vaccinated by then, and similar performance. Ultimately though, over this winter, I think we will lose more lives through poor covid control, than what we gain in vaccine protection, as a net % figure, compared to the rest of the EU. This may manifest as less deaths next winter for our at risk groups, compared to the EU (but will possibly be because we killed them this winter instead).

I kind of think that most of this vaccine scenario has come about because our hand has been forced mind, to provide a counter, to lighten the death toll cloud, a bit of a "yeah, we're really bad at that (deaths), but look how good we are at this (vaccine)". I also think this has been done to give some hope to those that are struggling that there's not much longer to go. The crazy thing is, this turn of events has probably led to us calling off our supplies of the vaccine early, and hence "beating the rush". So by a crazy turn of events, our ineptitude, has led to a gain, which I will happily take.

One thing to look out for here, is if our vaccination figures come down when the deaths figures do, then you will know they've been jacking up the vaccine figures (to an unsustainable rate, that exceeds supply), just to paper over the cracks of the cases and deaths figures. But if we maintain the 500k per day, I will be ecstatic. I would love to know what vaccine stores we have, and when our orders are due!

As for splitting the vaccine dose over more people (many once, rather than half twice), I think this is a good idea for those at risk, over 70's and healthcare workers, but not for those outside that group (not yet). Or not to a point where someone 2-10x more likely to die with half immunity, loses out their second dose to give a first vaccine to someone who is extremely low risk (or has already had Covid).
There are a couple of benefits of doing it this way, which would be hard to quantify, but would happen:
1) A massive benefit to this is that splitting the dose gets the word out more (very important, as pensioners more likely to rely on word of mouth than go internet stalking), and then this should increase uptake.
2) This would also mean more people will have had their first dose, which should help cool down the anti-vaxers, non-believers, covid deniers etc. If you don't get them then, you never will.
3) This is also massively multiplying the number of people subjected to the vaccine(s), so far better for monitoring (worldwide benefit, as well as the UK).
4) There's also a slight benefit that there isn't a lot of people going around with two jabs thinking they're invincible in winter (the most at risk, at the most at risk time), which could greatly increase the risk to those who wouldn't have had any jabs (in the same risk brackets).

If those in the EU wanted to have purchased their own vaccine, and started administering it themselves, through their own approval, then I imagine they could have done this of their own accord, but it seems none of them have been quite as desperate as us, and this has been compounded by supply issues to the EU orders (probably not the fault of the EU).
 
I am very against Brexit, but I think you're wide of the mark here.

Even if we were doing the 3 week gap we would still be hitting almost 500k jabs a day, and of course that could be "spun" to make us look good (actually no spinning required, it IS good).

I just think that this is one instance where not being tied to the EU has benefitted us... it's ok to admit that but still think that Brexit is a shambles
Staggers me that some people just cannot give credit when it is obviously due. This is non political and our roll out has been outstanding
 
This is non political and our roll out has been outstanding

let's wait to see when people have actually had the full vaccination rather than just the first half, before we start praising a government that has failed on every other thing during this pandemic.

If a mechanic serviced two of your brakes on your car, and said come back in 12 weeks and I'll do the other two, would you consider this outstanding ?
 
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Staggers me that some people just cannot give credit when it is obviously due. This is non political and our roll out has been outstanding
I hope the UK is lucky and the 12 week strategy works. It is very much a case of wait and see.

As I said above the logistics of the process have been good. It is the senior decision making I worry about. I hope the UK does not get problems because of the delayed 2nd jabs.
 
The 12 weeks thing could either be a master stroke or an unmitigated disaster. Surely their was some medical advice driving that decision?

That being said from the few people I know that have had it, their second dose is around the two month mark and not twelve weeks.

I really hope this is a success for all our sakes.
 
The 12 weeks thing could either be a master stroke or an unmitigated disaster. Surely their was some medical advice driving that decision?

Agreed and of course there was medical advice, but that's different from facts and clinical studies.

As you say either a masterstroke or a massive gamble that could leave us practically back to square one in 12 weeks.
 
Staggers me that some people just cannot give credit when it is obviously due. This is non political and our roll out has been outstanding
It staggers me that some people can be taken in by propaganda and manipulation of figures. The BioNtech vaccine requires 2 doses. Our government is delaying the roll out of the required dose, ignoring the manufacturers requirements, in order to lie about the amount of people being vaccinated.
 
The precedent was set when Germany ( plus a few others) broke ranks to vaccinate their citizens first even though they had all agreed to wait. This started the mistrust.

the reason it’s so important is that Germany the the de facto leading nation of the EU so to see them break ranks was really significant.

it was at best a PR stunt and at worst a sign of their arrogance to their fellow nations that did decide to wait.
 
Massive credit is due to the NHS in getting this programme under way. Long may they continue at the current rate.

On the EU side, they were slower out of the blocks. They waited or dithered (if you prefer) for the pharmas to take on liability assurances with the products. Their programs are struggling to catch up and now they have supply issues also.

UK Gov took a gamble, accepted that the British tax payer would underwrite the liability if something went wrong.

What prompted that was the recognition that their mismanagement had them on track for achieving a mortality rate that was going to rank amongst the highest in the world, exceeding that of our laggard EU neighbours. That was despite the advantages we had of our sea border and the opportunity to see how it affected Italy before it reached us.

First time they have shown any foresight whatsoever throughput this pandemic. I suppose they had to get something right eventually.

NHS is clearly demonstrating that the nation needs it more than ever before. It needs investment that it has for so long been deprived of by successive governments.
 
Without wishing to get drawn into one of your sprawling round-the-houses pointless arguments, I should add that as somebody who is very pro-EU and firmly in the remain camp, I have no prejudices against the EU.

You know, you are able to be disappointed with the EU with regards to their apparent lack of urgency in even looking at approving the AstraZeneca vaccine in this global emergency, where every day counts, without it meaning you hate the EU or are an advocate for Brexit.

Likewise, I can give credit to the government when they appear to do something well ( which is incredibly rare at the moment) such as procurement and securing early supply of vaccines, without it meaning I’m a Tory voter.....

I don’t give government credit for the rollout itself - that praise is reserved for the NHS.
Jeez, dude, don’t bring nuance into this FFS!
 
The preferred strategy initially was herd immunity; perhaps the government are still trying to partially pursue that strategy by getting the first jab into as many of the old and / or vulnerable as possible whilst letting the younger / fitter deal with it in the old fashioned way of getting it and (largely) getting over it (hence schools opening and closing, lockdown easing, tier systems etc) - a bit of a (mis-)managed mish-mash approach if you will. If you are going to give contradictory and clouded messages you may aswell apply clouded thinking to it all strategy-wise and hope for the best. Just a pity that damned virus is so bluddy mutatable and might outrun such thinking.

anyway, who the fck knows anything anymore......eh? 🙄
 
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