Finch

Coburn got his chance late in the 2020/21 season when we had nothing to play for, he scored against Sheff Wed, next season scored a few goals before Warnock was sacked and got the goal against Spurs.

I hope Finch gets given a similar chance now, especially if Forss is injured for a while again.
 
Bruce said:
I'm not convinced by that. Carrick talks the talk but doesn't seem overly interested in walking the walk. That said, maybe the consensus is that none of the academy seniors are capable of making the step up. It kind of feels like we're skipping a generation in the academy. A lot will come down to whether Carrick is prepared to give Finch and maybe some others, more than 2-3 minutes at the end of a game between now and the end of the season.
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I think there is a general feel that the seniors aren't going to make it. The names that seem to pop up are the younger lads.

Finch and Bridge are both 18 and young Law McCabe and Ayjay Mathews are also thought highly of who are only 17. These lads are are 3 or 4 years younger than the likes of Coburn and Hackney who we've only just started to see break through over the last 12-18 months, They've still got time on their side. It would be nice to see a couple of them get chances but they don't need to be rushed either. I think it would be beneficial to get them out on loan next season if we aren't planning on giving them minutes though.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Really, based on what evidence?

It's difficult to know, but I've only ever felt like he is really invested in developing young players, but clearly they need to have the talent for that to happen.
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Whether or not they have the talent is the question. But looking at this season the following academy players have been included in the squad:
Kavanagh, 3 appearances, 22 minutes
Nkrumah: none
Agyemang: none
Finch: none but injured for long time, same for Willis
McCabe 2 apps, 9 minutes
Cartwright 1 apps, 4 minutes
woolstone: none
Bridge: none
Bilongo none

The only recent academy grads who have played more than 30 minutes under Carrick are Coburn and Hackney and they were brought into the team before Carrick.

It could be that, simply, Carrick doesn't rate any of them but even in the midst of the worst injury crisis I've ever seen he would rather play senior players out of position than an academy player in their own position.

In general he is reluctant to use any but a very small core of players he seems to trust. That's not unusual in a manager but, to date, I see no actual evidence beyond some kind words that Carrick is either interested in developing academy players or capable of it. When you consider the amount we spend on it, that is a problem.

Just to say it again, maybe the current crop of seniors are simply not good enough in any circumstances while the 18 year olds have potential but are nowhere near close to ready.

The rest of this season will tell us more. We have Greenwood, O'Brien, Thomas and Ayling on loan and the only one there is even the slightest chance we might sign is Ayling and only then if Smith's injury is potentially career ending. If he keeps playing all of them rather than academy players then we're just wasting valuable experience. Personally I would tell Greenwood, O'Brien and Thomas that we won't be trying to sign them or extend their loan so it's time to go back to their clubs and train. It's clear that he doesn't rate Dijksteel so drop him entirely. Carrick himself needs to be brave and give some of the academy youngsters a decent run out.
 
Bruce said:
Whether or not they have the talent is the question. But looking at this season the following academy players have been included in the squad:
Kavanagh, 3 appearances, 22 minutes
Nkrumah: none
Agyemang: none
Finch: none but injured for long time, same for Willis
McCabe 2 apps, 9 minutes
Cartwright 1 apps, 4 minutes
woolstone: none
Bridge: none
Bilongo none

The only recent academy grads who have played more than 30 minutes under Carrick are Coburn and Hackney and they were brought into the team before Carrick.

It could be that, simply, Carrick doesn't rate any of them but even in the midst of the worst injury crisis I've ever seen he would rather play senior players out of position than an academy player in their own position.

In general he is reluctant to use any but a very small core of players he seems to trust. That's not unusual in a manager but, to date, I see no actual evidence beyond some kind words that Carrick is either interested in developing academy players or capable of it. When you consider the amount we spend on it, that is a problem.

Just to say it again, maybe the current crop of seniors are simply not good enough in any circumstances while the 18 year olds have potential but are nowhere near close to ready.

The rest of this season will tell us more. We have Greenwood, O'Brien, Thomas and Ayling on loan and the only one there is even the slightest chance we might sign is Ayling and only then if Smith's injury is potentially career ending. If he keeps playing all of them rather than academy players then we're just wasting valuable experience. Personally I would tell Greenwood, O'Brien and Thomas that we won't be trying to sign them or extend their loan so it's time to go back to their clubs and train. It's clear that he doesn't rate Dijksteel so drop him entirely. Carrick himself needs to be brave and give some of the academy youngsters a decent run out.
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I get your point of view, but conversely he decided to go with Coburn this season in favour of bringing on another forward. There are a few influencing factors within that decision of course, but ultimately that was the choice.

Simply put I think he will play young players if they're good enough; Coburn, Hackney, VDB, Greenwood and Rogers have all featured regularly for us this season.

I'd also say that our recent bad run of form saw a few kids on the bench and I can understand why he didn't want to introduce them into that situation.

Time will tell of course, but I'm not sure there's many of the kids who are ready to step up yet. Maybe one or two from the younger group, but again it's a huge step up
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
The thing is with Hackney is that everyone thought he was ready to step up, apart from the manager.
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Who's everyone? - He'd played 1 minute for Boro, and was average for a very poor Scunthorpe team, who only won 2 games in the 31 he featured in.

He would have played 37 but he got a 6 game ban for spitting on another player too. I definitely didn't think he was ready for the step up.
 
AytonMews said:
Why play Finch if Silvera is better?
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That's the question, isn't it. Same was true for Hackney when Leo added him to the team. Mowatt and Luongo were undoubtedly better than Hackney at that point, so why not play them. Leo also had McGree on the bench and he replaced Hackney after an hour. He could have played McGree from the start.

Leo took a decision that Hackney would improve quickly enough that he would soon be a better option than the other midfielders he had available. It's the exact opposite to the decision that Carrick has taken every time so far.

At this point, we know exactly what Silvera offers as a centre forward and it's not a lot. Would Finch have been an better option? Hard to know. Some young players like Hackney, grow when they step up a level. Others don't. You don't know until you take a bit of a leap of faith with them.
 
Ash88 said:
Who's everyone? - He'd played 1 minute for Boro, and was average for a very poor Scunthorpe team, who only won 2 games in the 31 he featured in.

He would have played 37 but he got a 6 game ban for spitting on another player too. I definitely didn't think he was ready for the step up.
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The academy staff, Craig Liddle, were absolutely behind him being part of the first team, but the manager wasn't.

I was a little surprised if his inclusion after The Earl of Sandwich left too, but we obviously have a wildly different perspective from the outside.
 
AytonMews said:
Why play Finch if Silvera is better?
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We don’t know at this point what Finch is like - he may be a star in the making or another who won’t quite make it at this level, but the only way to find out is to give him a chance, and now in these final few games seems like an ideal time to find out.
 
johnsmithsno2 said:
Those of us who go back a bit have seen so many second team strikers who fans demanded be given a go but who ultimately weren't good enough, or at least weren't ready. Hopefully Sonny won't join the long list who either end up in the lower leagues or disappear altogether. But if he is a gem, it's almost certain that he will need time and not to be pushed along too soon. Silvera's got something and I wouldn't be surprised if he starts showing it more regularly next season.
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Regards Sonny, I agree entirely. The lad will get his chance (y)
 
Merlin said:
We don’t know at this point what Finch is like - he may be a star in the making or another who won’t quite make it at this level, but the only way to find out is to give him a chance, and now in these final few games seems like an ideal time to find out.
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If you follow Sonny Finch, watch any of the U21 games / read the reports/ etc, "we" do know what Sonny finch is like. Find out the location of the next U21`s game and get there. If not, look out for the U21`s games shown live on MFC Website. Have a look, Merlin. There's a few other good players in the U21s / 18s......or if you want, get to see Max Howells playing on loan at Whitby. He's one for our future.(y) ​
 
Ash88 said:
Who's everyone? - He'd played 1 minute for Boro, and was average for a very poor Scunthorpe team, who only won 2 games in the 31 he featured in.

He would have played 37 but he got a 6 game ban for spitting on another player too. I definitely didn't think he was ready for the step up.
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Exactly the re-writing of history on here is incredible at times.

When Leo introduced him into the team most probably knew him from the spitting incident only, when some people wanted him banned for the season on this board.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
I get your point of view, but conversely he decided to go with Coburn this season in favour of bringing on another forward. There are a few influencing factors within that decision of course, but ultimately that was the choice.

Simply put I think he will play young players if they're good enough; Coburn, Hackney, VDB, Greenwood and Rogers have all featured regularly for us this season.

I'd also say that our recent bad run of form saw a few kids on the bench and I can understand why he didn't want to introduce them into that situation.

Time will tell of course, but I'm not sure there's many of the kids who are ready to step up yet. Maybe one or two from the younger group, but again it's a huge step up
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I don't think he decided to go with Coburn at all, he tried bringing in another striker and failed and that's why he had to stays we were so short upfront
 
brattleboro said:
I don't think he decided to go with Coburn at all, he tried bringing in another striker and failed and that's why he had to stays we were so short upfront
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Coburn was due to go out on loan to Plymouth, if you recall, but we were let down by another club and Coburn was left here. He needs more experience and has been injured for more time than he's played this season. The last few times Carrick did play him, he looked laboured, slow and exhausted. Continuing to play him is neither good for the player nor the rest of the team.
 
r00fie1 said:
Coburn was due to go out on loan to Plymouth, if you recall, but we were let down by another club and Coburn was left here. He needs more experience and has been injured for more time than he's played this season. The last few times Carrick did play him, he looked laboured, slow and exhausted. Continuing to play him is neither good for the player nor the rest of the team.
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I think that was Tom Cannon the being let down, I think we were in advanced talks but then Leicester came in late and usurped us….worked out rubbish for Cannon
 
I'd like to see him feature in the final 3 games. I'd definitely bring him on ahead of Silvera. Also may sway him in to signing a new deal.

Also Greenwood is out against Leeds (more pressing Ayling). Carrick seems to rave about Finch. So give him a few more mins as realistically nothing to play for. I'm not saying start. Just 2-3 15 min cameos (not 1- 3mins).
 
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