Jedi boro
Well-known member
You laugh but I once saw phil Taylor interviewed when he called himself an athlete.
Greatest sportsman or woman of all time
- Thread starter Borotommo
- Start date
Boro in Devon
Well-known member
It all depends on how you define greatest.
Success over their entire career.
Dominance in their sport for a period of time.
Participating when there are other talented players competing.
All of these would potentially give different answers.
Success over their entire career.
Dominance in their sport for a period of time.
Participating when there are other talented players competing.
All of these would potentially give different answers.
Laughing
Well-known member
I've said what I am going to on this Andy. As I said you have your opinion, enjoy it.How would Ronaldo know he's the greatest ever? What metric is he the best ever, and how is this compared to now, or compared to europe? How many games has he seen? How many times has he played against him? I'm not doubting his judgement, I'm just saying he has little to be able to judge, zero method of comparison and zero logic that he had a harder job then (against worse defenders/ keepers) etc. I'm doubting (or questioning) his analysis, as I would doubt anyone's, things need to be backed up and based on logic and/ or fact. I think it's just hard to say that with accuracy, well it's actually impossible.
The only reason he didn't bring himself into that convo, is because he would also have to bring in Messi, who most see as a better footballer than him, abeit Ronaldo is probably the most "complete" a player there has ever been. By saying Pele is better it's not bringing the him v messi debate to light, which he does well to avoid.
Pele called Ronaldo the best ever seemingly, it's like a joint effort against Messi & Maradona
Malaguena
Well-known member
What you have evidenced on this thread is the "Sky syndrome" - everything NOW has to the the best EVER, which if you can be bothered to look beyond the fluff is just rubbish, and individuals wanting to have seen "the best" for their own ego
For the record - my "opinion" is that Pele is the best footballer ever (and claiming that it's Messi or Ronaldo is further evidence of the Sky syndrome mentioned above) but if you're talking best sportsman, as has been mentioned, it has to transcend sport and look at life, politics, environment at the time, social influence, and other factors and therefore that can only be Ali
For the record - my "opinion" is that Pele is the best footballer ever (and claiming that it's Messi or Ronaldo is further evidence of the Sky syndrome mentioned above) but if you're talking best sportsman, as has been mentioned, it has to transcend sport and look at life, politics, environment at the time, social influence, and other factors and therefore that can only be Ali
Andy_W
Well-known member
How many full games of Pele have you seen, honestly? Where, when and how? I’ve tried looking, and maybe seen about 10 at the most.
Everything now is largely better, fitter, faster, more efficient, it’s simple evolution and improvement of knowledge, diet, professionalism and coaching methods, to deny this is not logical. The gains in every sport since the 50’s is unreal. Even since the early 90’s to 2000’s things improved massively, largely as players weren’t having 10 pints 3 times a week, and smoking like chimenenys.
But ignoring that, Messi and Ronaldo have been voted the best for like nearly 15 years by viewers, media and other pros/ peers. In that time no other player has had a look in, especially with such consistency over an exceptionally long period. So seeing as they’re both ‘up there’, had you taken one of these current anomalies away, then the other could have like 10 POTY awards which would basically be undisputed. They’ve dominated for almost 15 years, at the time when it should be theoretically hardest to dominate, when there are more footballers playing than there ever was. They still have more to give too, Pele was passed his best by 30, unfortunately, but maybe did peak earlier (or had a chance earlier).
Laughing
Well-known member
You do talk some cack Andy. Humans stopped evolving many years ago once there was no reproductive imperative to evolve. Even if that weren't true a species don't evolve over 3 generations.
Yesterday you argued that Ronaldo couldn't have an onion about pele because he hadn't played against him. then go on to give me your opinion about Ronaldo.
You might want to read your posts before committing them.
Yesterday you argued that Ronaldo couldn't have an onion about pele because he hadn't played against him. then go on to give me your opinion about Ronaldo.
You might want to read your posts before committing them.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I meant more of the evolution of ability, through coaching, science and nutrition, evolution of education and science has ensured we can get more out of people. Are you not start enough to realises that, or are you just acting dumb or being a troll?
I've probably seen 200 games of Ronaldo, just like practically every football fan, pro footballer or expert (that gave him and messi about 13 player of the year awards), how many Pele games has ronado (or the average football fan) seen, 10? 5? 0?
You've not answered how many you have seen? Wonder why that is.....
Laughing
Well-known member
Just so I can get this straight Andy. You are arguing that sports science has moved on so far that Pele can't possibly be the greatest footballer ever. It's that what you are saying?I meant more of the evolution of ability, through coaching, science and nutrition, evolution of education and science has ensured we can get more out of people. Are you not start enough to realises that, or are you just acting dumb or being a troll?
I've probably seen 200 games of Ronaldo, just like practically every football fan, pro footballer or expert (that gave him and messi about 13 player of the year awards), how many Pele games has ronado (or the average football fan) seen, 10? 5? 0?
You've not answered how many you have seen? Wonder why that is.....
Marvanelli
Well-known member
Answering a question, with a question pretty much confirms that said person has lost the argument.
Laughing
Well-known member
Thanks Marv. Nonsense but outside input is always appreciated.
Steer
Well-known member
Ed Moses. World record holder at the 400m hurdles, won 2 Olympic Golds (may have been 3 if the USA had not boycotted the 1980 Olympics) and world champion 2 times. Went unbeaten in his event for over 9 years.
He was undoubtedly the best in the world at his event, which is difficult event requiring technique and outright speed. To go unbeaten in any athletics event for such a time is ridiculous, and I don't think anyone will ever repeat that achievement.
Oh and in case anyone is put off this suggestion due to other athletes drug cheating, he helped setup the random out of competition drugs testing schemes that led to many guilty athletes getting caught.
He was undoubtedly the best in the world at his event, which is difficult event requiring technique and outright speed. To go unbeaten in any athletics event for such a time is ridiculous, and I don't think anyone will ever repeat that achievement.
Oh and in case anyone is put off this suggestion due to other athletes drug cheating, he helped setup the random out of competition drugs testing schemes that led to many guilty athletes getting caught.
Andy_W
Well-known member
You don't understand yet? Wow.
I'm saying it proves you can't say he's the best ever with any legitimacy, not when there two other dudes who have dominated for longer, with better records, at a higher level, against a higher standard of opposition, at a time when opposition actually get decent coaching on defending, the keepers actually wear gloves and statistics aren't "manipulated".
You've barely seen the guy you're claiming is the best ever, the two I'm saying are probably better have more evidence than any other footballers ever.
You really do make me laugh
Andy_W
Well-known member
He was a good sport, I'll give him that
Must have had absolute balls of steel, or was just absolutely bat$hit crazy.
Borotommo
Well-known member
He lives local to me, and met him a couple of times. I’ve no idea about the constitution of his testicles, but I can confirm he’s way up the loony spectrumHe was a good sport, I'll give him that
Must have had absolute balls of steel, or was just absolutely bat$hit crazy.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Awesome
The thing is he even looks nuts, you can just tell he is absolutely not with it.
festa5
Well-known member
Or maybe people just have a different opinion that's just as legitimate as your own? Messi and Ronaldo's numbers speak for themselves. Nothing to do with "sky syndrome" whatever that is. If they played 30 years ago with their records as they are they would still be in the debate and rightly so.
Just a thought.
Laughing
Well-known member
Thats not what you said at all. You told me that Ronaldo was the most complete footballer ever. You didn't care what Ronaldo's opinion was as he had never played against Pele.You don't understand yet? Wow.
I'm saying it proves you can't say he's the best ever with any legitimacy, not when there two other dudes who have dominated for longer, with better records, at a higher level, against a higher standard of opposition, at a time when opposition actually get decent coaching on defending, the keepers actually wear gloves and statistics aren't "manipulated".
You've barely seen the guy you're claiming is the best ever, the two I'm saying are probably better have more evidence than any other footballers ever.
You really do make me laugh
You are assuming a higher level, If that assumption were true then you could argue that watmore is better than pele due to improved diet and training. It makes the whole greatest sportsman a nonsense because in 20 years time a journeyman championship player will be better than Ronaldo which is tosh.
You may argue with me but the football world generally agrees with me.
Some records that Pele holds that have yet to be broken.
Youngest world cup winner
Most world cup wins by a single player
most assists in world cups (remember saying he was rubbish in all but the 68 world cup)
Youngest world cup hattrick
Most goals for brazil
Now to you're ridiculous Ballon D'or assertion. The award was only opened up to players outside of Europe in 1995. In 2016 a re-evaluation was done by the french FA of previous winners to include all of football. Pele was awarded 7, 1 more than Messi, the current Ballon D'or record holder.
Pele was the best footballer that ever lived, proffessional footballers agree with me, the French FA agree with me, even your hero Ronaldo agrees with me, but do carry on laughing at me.
You may not agree with me, but I am right.
Andy_W
Well-known member
Found that comment strange too, like more scrutiny is somehow worse? But not being able to see 99% of some other dude's career is somehow better?
Maybe he's watched loads of games on Sky and thinks Messi and Ronaldo are $hite? He's welcome to that opinion mind, although I've actually never heard anyone say such nonsense in person. Pretty much every single football fan I've met says they have both dominated for like the last 15 years or so (which is much longer than any one else dominated), and had the other not been there they would have been a country mile away from the nearest competition.
Andy_W
Well-known member
I said he probably is, because he probably is? As in complete, by having all the physical attributes that Pele clearly never had (unless he can defy physics or the training and nutrition available at the time)? Have you not seen Ronaldo's physique or physical attributes, as well as his clear footballing ability?
You're showing yourself up here, by being so narrow-minded.
Whatmore? Sorry, but
What a crock of crap. I'm on about peak players for their time, why are you comparing a peak player with a champo mid level side player, who has barely done it for a couple of seasons?
If that is your line of thinking, this is a clear waste of time, over and out.
What a joker