Harry Maguire

Marvanelli

Well-known member
I'd argue that prior to the last match they haven't been in an England shirt
In Maguire's last 4 England games (prior to Monday's game against Germany). He cost us a goal against Hungary (he was subbed on with 5 minutes to go by the way!!!) and away in Germany he left a huge gaping hole in defence (his side) for Hofmann to run into and shoot and score.

I'd argue his form for England of late has been extremely poor and he shouldn't have been anywhere near the first 11 on Monday.

His confident is shot to pieces.
His form is out the window.
He can't even get a game for an average (average for their high standards) Utd side.

He should definitely be further down the pecking order when it comes to England CB's
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
In Maguire's last 4 England games (prior to Monday's game against Germany). He cost us a goal against Hungary (he was subbed on with 5 minutes to go by the way!!!) and away in Germany he left a huge gaping hole in defence (his side) for Hofmann to run into and shoot and score.
Everyone played badly in that Hungary game. I don't pick Maguire out as the key failure in that Germany 1-1 game. He had to close the man down, because our midfield were nowhere in sight. As the closest man he had to close down the ball. The issue is that the two players behind and left of him didn't do their jobs tracking their man.

He was caught square for the 4th Hungary goal, that wasn't good.
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
Also strikers can play themselves into form ( one goal does wonders ) esp in a competition. Defenders though don’t have that luxury.

Kane miss kicks or doesn’t make the run nothing really changes

A central def does it and we are 1-0 down
 

Marvanelli

Well-known member
Everyone played badly in that Hungary game. I don't pick Maguire out as the key failure in that Germany 1-1 game. He had to close the man down, because our midfield were nowhere in sight. As the closest man he had to close down the ball. The issue is that the two players behind and left of him didn't do their jobs tracking their man.

He was caught square for the 4th Hungary goal, that wasn't good.
I'm certainly not pinning the shoddy England form solely at the feet of Maguire. There's been a few suspect performances.

I'm merely pointing out Maguire has certainly contributed to the shocking form (worst form for England going into a tournament I'm led to believe?) including the defensive errors that have happened.

Maguire has been poor for club for well over a year and he has been poor for England for a number of games now.

Monday didn't even come as a shock neither. Hindsight wasn't even needed. It's simple, he shouldn't have started.
 

VestasBoro

Well-known member
This is correct.


This isn't correct.

Stones, Dier, Walker (at RCB in a back 3), Tomori, White are all better than Maguire.
Dier, i like him, i'd say he's on par with Maguire.
Walker is a full back, not as good in the centre as Maguire.
Stones, yes this year probably better but he's injured now so will miss games.
Tomori, I'd have liked to see him but as stated previously he isn't playing in a great league and he's unproven for England.
White, i'd agree, i do like White, has good potential and can play with the ball at his feet but he's unproven at international level.

I never said Maguire was the best, i said one of, and if we play 3, he certainly is in the top 3.

Maguire IS one of the best. You may have him 6th just going off players you list and that still merits a WC spot. Stones is injured, may miss some football which is the reason Maguire is being hounded so does that mean Stones doesn't deserve a spot? Tomori and White unproven at international level. Maguire has played better for England than he's played badly which can't be said for other players whose spot isn't being discussed. Foden is dog toffee for England and yet his spot in the squad isn't in doubt.
 

The Card Cheat

Well-known member
Gareth not trying other options mid game has also hung maguire out to dry as now if he had a bad game we have no credible options.

You said literally the opposite before the Euros. That Southgate was an idiot for not playing his A team in the matches directly before the tournament, and that Germany were so much better prepared than England because they had played their strongest 11 in their corresponding games. Then went dead quiet when we knocked them out in the last 16.
Make your mind up.
 

Marvanelli

Well-known member
Dier, i like him, i'd say he's on par with Maguire.
Walker is a full back, not as good in the centre as Maguire.
Stones, yes this year probably better but he's injured now so will miss games.
Tomori, I'd have liked to see him but as stated previously he isn't playing in a great league and he's unproven for England.
White, i'd agree, i do like White, has good potential and can play with the ball at his feet but he's unproven at international level.

I never said Maguire was the best, i said one of, and if we play 3, he certainly is in the top 3.

Maguire IS one of the best. You may have him 6th just going off players you list and that still merits a WC spot. Stones is injured, may miss some football which is the reason Maguire is being hounded so does that mean Stones doesn't deserve a spot? Tomori and White unproven at international level. Maguire has played better for England than he's played badly which can't be said for other players whose spot isn't being discussed. Foden is dog toffee for England and yet his spot in the squad isn't in doubt.
I pretty much agree with your analysis of the players I listed, however I'd still favour them over Maguire.

The most frustrating factor is that Italy away game was a perfect opportunity for Southgate to throw Tomori in. It's his home stadium. He plays in Italy. And it was pretty much a dead rubber of a game. Plus Maguire has been in quite shocking form, so Southgate should have saw it as a shot to nothing...at worst even if we lost, at least Tomori is getting experience and Southgate could get a good look at him.

Now the problem we have is - Maguire isn't good enough (form and confidence is probably at an all time low) and yet the replacements have had zero or very little experience over the last few games to stake a claim.

It's looking like a ridiculous decision by Southgate not to give some others some minutes leading up to the World Cup.
 
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Jedi boro

Well-known member
You said literally the opposite before the Euros. That Southgate was an idiot for not playing his A team in the matches directly before the tournament, and that Germany were so much better prepared than England because they had played their strongest 11 in their corresponding games. Then went dead quiet when we knocked them out in the last 16.
Make your mind up.
No I didn’t say that I said he was an idiot for playing players that were not even in the squad for the euros

Huge difference. Of course you need to experiment with your options to find the right squad but once that squad is picked and locked in to then play ones that aren’t going is yes crazy.
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
Here’s my post.

Why the hell if you were not going to pick him would you start ward prowse give him all the set pieces and even put him on penalties.

odd very odd I can’t believe we are playing players who aren’t going.

Reply
 

VestasBoro

Well-known member
I pretty much agree with your analysis of the players I listed, however I'd still favour them over Maguire.

The most frustrating factor is that Italy away game was a perfect opportunity for Southgate to throw Tomori in. It's his home stadium. He plays in Italy. And it was pretty much a dead rubber of a game. Plus Maguire has been in quite shocking form, so Southgate should have saw it as a shot to nothing...at worst even if we lost, at least Tomori is getting experience and Southgate could get a good look at him.

Now the problem we have is - Maguire isn't good enough (form and confidence is probably at an all time low) and yet the replacements haven't had zero or very little experience over the last few games to stake a claim.

It's looking like a ridiculous decision by Southgate not to give some others some minutes leading up to the World Cup.
I'd agree with that too, we should have played Tomori 100%, the media would have bought into it was because he plays over there, knows the league, ground, players etc and with it been the first game of the 2, GS would have been forgiven for not playing Maguire due to not playing for England. I don't think he fancies him for whatever reason, i have hardly seen him play, he must have something, but is he better or good enough, i couldnt say and the man in charge doesn't believe he is.

I think he should have played Toney for half an hour at some point, lads cards are high he's playing well scoring goals and he's gone away with England, not had a sniff, and now if i was him i'd think whats the point in going to a World Cup because im never getting ahead of Kane, and if we're behind or struggling he's more likely to switch the wide players than he is to add a 2nd striker and change the formation.

Fingers crossed Stones is back quickly.
I'd love White to have an amazing next few months and really push for a spot in that back 3, push Walker to the full back spot where he can really influence a game, for me he's the best RB/RWB in the world so to play him centre back is taking out yet another creative player who is also very good defensively.

Talksport hit the nail on the head today saying we are playing 3 at the back because our centre backs aren't very good so GS plays a 3, because 3 ok players are better than 2, and it just adds a bit more cover which ultimately shows GS hasn't got faith in playing them as a back 4, and that means we have to lose a creative/attacking player which is where we actually have some strength.
 

Jedi boro

Well-known member
I'd agree with that too, we should have played Tomori 100%, the media would have bought into it was because he plays over there, knows the league, ground, players etc and with it been the first game of the 2, GS would have been forgiven for not playing Maguire due to not playing for England. I don't think he fancies him for whatever reason, i have hardly seen him play, he must have something, but is he better or good enough, i couldnt say and the man in charge doesn't believe he is.

I think he should have played Toney for half an hour at some point, lads cards are high he's playing well scoring goals and he's gone away with England, not had a sniff, and now if i was him i'd think whats the point in going to a World Cup because im never getting ahead of Kane, and if we're behind or struggling he's more likely to switch the wide players than he is to add a 2nd striker and change the formation.

Fingers crossed Stones is back quickly.
I'd love White to have an amazing next few months and really push for a spot in that back 3, push Walker to the full back spot where he can really influence a game, for me he's the best RB/RWB in the world so to play him centre back is taking out yet another creative player who is also very good defensively.

Talksport hit the nail on the head today saying we are playing 3 at the back because our centre backs aren't very good so GS plays a 3, because 3 ok players are better than 2, and it just adds a bit more cover which ultimately shows GS hasn't got faith in playing them as a back 4, and that means we have to lose a creative/attacking player which is where we actually have some strength.
Of course he should

Now we are going into a World Cup with no clue how they will go on an England shirt.
 

TheWolfman

Well-known member
Yeah i do feel sorry for him but he's no where near as good as terry or ferdinand. Southgate and Ehiogu were better in my book.

I think its a similar case with boro when results arent going right the players out of the team are always world beaters and the players playing dont deserve the shirt.
Tomori should have been given an opportunity but choosing a player to go play at a world cup with only a handful of caps would be risky. You would also be bringing him in to an underperforming team which could harm his chances long term.

Ben white should be nowhere near the team
 

kuepper

Well-known member
When's his appeal against his jail sentence in Greece due, it'll be good for him to get out of the limelight for a bit....
 

Priv

Well-known member
We do have better CB's though.

And I'm not talking about Mings or Coady.

There's an English CB playing at Arsenal (albeit he's playing at RB at the moment, but he's played CB for them for a year and is currently part of a very good team).
There's an English CB over in Italy, contributing massively to the fact his team just won the Scudetto for the first time in 10 years or so.

We have options. And we have better CB's currently than Harry Maguire. But for some reason, GS is staying loyal (far too loyal!) to Maguire...and it's actually affecting us negatively.

White was average at centreback last season though, he didnt stand out at all and made just as many howlers as maguire.
 

Priv

Well-known member
This is correct.


This isn't correct.

Stones, Dier, Walker (at RCB in a back 3), Tomori, White are all better than Maguire.

Stones yes, Dier (only since Conte went to spurs), Tomori possibly, White wasnt great last season at centre back, Walker is a liability at centreback.

Coady and Mings arent good enough either.

We arent blessed with enough decent centrebacks at the moment.
 
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