Harry Maguire

Marvanelli

Well-known member
White was average at centreback last season though, he didnt stand out at all and made just as many howlers as maguire.
He did stand out though. He was part of an Arsenal team that progressed and they are still progressing.

Even if you think he was average last season, average is still better than what Maguire was.

Anyhow, (assuming we continue with the same formation of 3 at the back) I think it's fair to say England have 3 better CB's than Maguire, meaning he should not be in the first 11.

The unfortunate thing is, we all know, regardless of how many games (lack of) he plays for Utd between now and the WC (and how many howlers/below par performances he has) he will still be in the first 11.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Btw BELLIGHAM is the key man in that squad this kid is the real deal and we should be building the side around him.
We are but gone are the days of having an international team built around one key man. We need to find some CBs, and a LB/LWB from somewhere there is a serious gap in top internationals standard English lads in these roles.

We need another CF to properly emerge and push Kane, who hasn't scored an open play goal in 8 games. If you take out the whipping boys of San Marino, Albania and Andorra, he's got 6 pen play goals in 26 games. We need more from him, or someone else to step up.

We then need some of the wide players to step up Foden hasn't ever produced anything for England, Grealish is off form for club and country, Sterling has stopped scoring at club and country level. Saka gone missing at Mn Utd
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
I'd agree with that too, we should have played Tomori 100%, the media would have bought into it was because he plays over there, knows the league, ground, players etc and with it been the first game of the 2, GS would have been forgiven for not playing Maguire due to not playing for England. I don't think he fancies him for whatever reason, i have hardly seen him play, he must have something, but is he better or good enough, i couldnt say and the man in charge doesn't believe he is.

I think he should have played Toney for half an hour at some point, lads cards are high he's playing well scoring goals and he's gone away with England, not had a sniff, and now if i was him i'd think whats the point in going to a World Cup because im never getting ahead of Kane, and if we're behind or struggling he's more likely to switch the wide players than he is to add a 2nd striker and change the formation.

Fingers crossed Stones is back quickly.
I'd love White to have an amazing next few months and really push for a spot in that back 3, push Walker to the full back spot where he can really influence a game, for me he's the best RB/RWB in the world so to play him centre back is taking out yet another creative player who is also very good defensively.

Talksport hit the nail on the head today saying we are playing 3 at the back because our centre backs aren't very good so GS plays a 3, because 3 ok players are better than 2, and it just adds a bit more cover which ultimately shows GS hasn't got faith in playing them as a back 4, and that means we have to lose a creative/attacking player which is where we actually have some strength.
Spot on.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
Tomori, done well in Italy, but the league isn't what it was in the 80s, it's a shadow of that. I'm interested to see where his journey goes though, and he's pretty close to getting in the side. 12 months ago Maguire was rightly ahead, and up until this week he'd only had one poor game for england so deserved to keep his place. Now though may be the time after a very poor game vs Germany from Maguire, to replace.
Yeah, do you reckon?

I don’t watch much Serie A so no idea what the standards are like there now, and respect your opinion man, you know your stuff. Is it pretty poor atm?

Tomori was promising at Spurs but I’ve never seen him play for Milan, no idea how good he is now or how good the standard is he’s playing against. Does feel like he’s the guy who gets better in fans minds the more he doesn’t play at the minute, like Luongo for some reason with us.

I’d have definitely played Tomori and Toney in the last few matches anyway. Have to let them get their boots on in a lower pressure situation, because if there’s injuries we’ll need them in the WC.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
Tomori was promising at Spurs but I’ve never seen him play for Milan, no idea how good he is now or how good the standard is he’s playing against. Does feel like he’s the guy who gets better in fans minds the more he doesn’t play at the minute, like Luongo for some reason with us.
It's one of those truisms for footy fans, the longer someone isn't in a team, the more important they are to it. :D

He's done well at Milan, the couple of full games I've watched and handful of snippets, he did decent enough, and he absolutely should be in the mix going forward. But there is an assumption that because he's at a big club he must be brilliant. Clayton Blackmore once played regularly for Man Utd, and Reiziger for Barcelona so I don't buy that it's enough in itself.

He's starting to get good experience, and I think going forward he's going to be a key player, not sure he's quite at the England regular standard yet, takes liberties on the ball a little too often for me, concentration goes but his pace gets him out of a bind, but against top strikers that won't happen. Maguires days are probably numbered, I think he won't be an england regular in 12 months, but without him we lack experience at the back.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
Nice one. Good review that, sounds like he’s capable and will improve.

Which is why it’s baffling to me that they wouldn’t give him a start in a dead rubber against players he knows.

Totally agree btw, it’s insane how fans get obsessed with the idea that the players who don’t play are the ones who can transform a team. A nonsense. The longer they’re on the bench, the better they get.
 

BoroMart

Well-known member
One of my biggest issues with England in the last 20 years has been keeping certain players too long harming the succession. The lack of game time for Tomori when Maguires time is winding down, Walker is 32 and Stones is injury prone. We could easily need 3 or 4 new CBs in the next 18 months....and Tomori could be the most experienced with 3 caps which will ruin us.
 

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
Hard innit when you can lose your job over a bad performance over four games - and to be honest it’s one or two games, the group stages in any tournament are easy.

Can see why they focus on players who can win today. And try and grow a team with players they can trust, despite having no time to work with them.

You can understand why Gareth is so loyal to Maguire.
 

parmoboy

Well-known member
I've supported Maguire remaining in the England side for the world cup but his performance the other night has concerned me.

If he can get some games for Utd before the start of the tournament then I'd be tempted to start him, but if not then I don't think he should be starting.

Tomori and Stones could potentially form a strong partnership together in defence but have they ever started a game together? This is the issue.

I can't believe Southgate didn't start Tomori against the Italians. I can only think Southgate is doing it to try and show Maguire that he is loved but it was a wasted opportunity to have a look at another option.
 

The Card Cheat

Well-known member
I thought exactly the same regarding looking at other players in these games, and struggled to understand why we didn‘t, but I’ve been doubting Southgates decisions for years, and he’s continues to prove me wrong. I think he has earned the right to make those decisions, though sometimes I don’t understand them.
 

BiggEggo

Well-known member
If you want to see those calamitous mistakes repeated in a competitive game, then leave him in. Play him alongside Stones and in front of Pope and be sure of goal mouth action.

Their second goal came from him losing possession. A CH trying to take on players on the edge of the oppo penalty area and looking like a right carthorse. Why on earth was even in that part of the pitch. Useless.
 

Marvanelli

Well-known member
I don’t watch much Serie A so no idea what the standards are like there now, and respect your opinion man, you know your stuff. Is it pretty poor atm?
I've probably watched him a dozen times for AC Milan and although the sample size is small, there's no doubt in my mind that he is a far superior defender than Maguire.

He's still only young so he's yet to reach his potential.

He should definitely be starting ahead of Maguire - even if Maguire was playing regularly at Utd.

The fact Tomori is playing for one of the best teams in Italy, playing Champions League football and yet Maguire is stuck on a bench and is restricted to playing Europa League football should be reason enough to justify Tomori over him.

Like I said earlier though, it won't matter if Tomori pulls out 10/10 performances regularly from now until the WC and Maguire plays 0 minutes...we all know who will be starting for England in the first game at the World Cup.
 
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