Hate the tories but..

r00fie1 said:
My mam is in her 80s.
From 14 to 65 she worked at least five days a week and sometimes had three jobs on the go.
She kept the roof over our heads and [just about] food on the table.
She paid taxes, just like the rest of our family - as an insurance ["Social Security"] to act as a safety net in times of need and to provide care and support in old age.
Its not like she hasnt paid her way - like many others who have toiled away at schitty jobs to pay the bills.
Where the flip has the money gone?
Into private health care, the pockets of big pharma and the huge global corporations who have received billions from their friends in Parliament.
Disgraceful.
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Mine the same. She now lives in a delightful new build bungalow courtesy of the government, having saved nothing in a personal pension. She is regularly bunging my children cash. Doesn’t seem that bad if I’m honest, though she neither wants nor expects anything and lives a rather simple life. I am not denying some pensioners struggle but my parents are the only true reference I have and they both have disposable income despite never earning even an average income, never owning a house, raising the 5 of us on the council estates of Teesside. My father unfortunately chooses to spend his extra cash in the betting shop. It seems quite insane to think he needs more to squander, as he has done the last 20 years. When they pass, which i hope is a long way off, they will undoubtedly cost me money rather than furnish me with some grand inheritance. I couldn’t care less, I’m old myself. I don’t get it honestly. But so many people say pensioners are poor I’m inclined to believe it
 
If and it’s a big if, this new “tax” goes to where they claim it is and we know that what is being said happens then I’m all for it.

But I just don’t trust em
 
OttersBoro said:
Jam - think it was about Xmas that signed up to the website (perhaps March when access was allowed). Posted a few times but generally just like to look especially on footy or posts like Erimus bikes rides :) . Like the website for many reasons but gives me an attachment to home.

I am not a lifelong Labour supporter, most of the time not all the time

Personally I like almost everything about Keir Starmer but disliked many things about Corbyn. I am glad Labour didnt have a chance where I live as I would have to have held my nose to vote for him. Lib Dem is the only choice which isnt Tory.

Again Starmer is everything I believe in - principled, thoughtful, balanced and with a strong social conscience. I think he would look after the Economy a 100x better than Corbyn and McDonald and hence a chance for real social change. However not saying I am right on that, just my view.
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I am trying to debate but you are digging a bigger hole every post
As above can you explain how the economy would be 100x better under Starter when I'm not even sure what his policies are.
 
asredastheycome said:
I am trying to debate but you are digging a bigger hole every post
As above can you explain how the economy would be 100x better under Starter when I'm not even sure what his policies are.
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Maybe, like a lot of the population, he had no faith in Corbyn and Co. Nobody will ever know how good Corbyn would have been but he didn't inspire confidence in many people.
 
asredastheycome said:
I am trying to debate but you are digging a bigger hole every post
As above can you explain how the economy would be 100x better under Starter when I'm not even sure what his policies are.
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First up very happy to be in this hole :) if thats where I am

Think there were good things about Corbyn for example I think people had got sick of austerity, and things like the impact on the disabled is really horrible. Tory government was beyond redemption for that and aware this isnt popular but I didnt like the acceptance than large defecits are ok and I wanted to see some view on paying it off.

I think he would have jacked up taxes on the wealthiest - thats ok but concerns me that it would have been hugely and this would have had impacts such as some people choosing not to work or moving out of the country and hence overall tax take being negatively impacted.

I must admit some of my concern on McDonnel wasnt necessarily linked to the policies but where it would eventually go and what I thought he truely believe in. Think Trade Union power may have become excessive (aware that wont go down well) - excessive for me is what we had under the likes of Bob Crow in London. Train drivers being paid well, high holidays and then screw the millions of travellors because we wont more and have a position to really nail it. As above used to work for BA and in my opinion unions killed BA - used to share a flat with a pilot, he flew around around 7 times per month (single flights, as he described he got really good at crosswords when transatlantic). BA pilots/ cabin crew unions ran the airline and screw everyone else, passengers, shareholders (thats pensioners to a great extent) and other staff

Be nice to find a balance including workers reps on boards etc like believe they have in germany

Overall thought huge expenditure and I just didnt believe it could be paid for without terrific levels of debt. From the above I obviously have a thing about pushing on debt to future generations.

It's a fair point re Starmer and policies :) Just not sure what he can do. If he rolls stuff out now Boris lines up the guns or nicks the popular stuff. I suppose it hugely encompasses what politics is about in trust, I believe in Starmers background, I always thought that secretly Corbyn would have been quite happy to have a shifted to a Chavez Venezuluan economy but it perhaps might be that we have all missed out on a scandanavian utopia... who knows

What do you think?
 
Keep our feet on the floor and understand what Boris`s latest means for ordinary folk.
Whether Jeremy Corbyn wanted Venezuela in Yorkshire or the home counties is irrelevant.

What I do know is that poorer people will be paying a higher proportion of their income in tax rises than the richer folk, who can well afford it.
Its a regressive tax and helps Johnson and his buddies.
 
Tory Austerity is the reason why this country has neglected Social Care so much. Local Authorities have been hammered by Government for ten years and forced to make cuts everywhere. Do not let Johnson and his cronies spin even more lies. It's their fault.
 
"never once or considered voting Tory, though voted Lib Dem as many times as Labour"
"I am not a lifelong Labour supporter, most of the time not all the time"

WELCOME BACK COOPER6711!!!!!
 
r00fie1 said:
Keep our feet on the floor and understand what Boris`s latest means for ordinary folk.
Whether Jeremy Corbyn wanted Venezuela in Yorkshire or the home counties is irrelevant.

What I do know is that poorer people will be paying a higher proportion of their income in tax rises than the richer folk, who can well afford it.
Its a regressive tax and helps Johnson and his buddies.
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Roofie, the thread wasnt about whether NI is regressive, its whether NI was chosen as it protects pensioners versus income Tax. Pensioners would be hit to a much greater extent if they had used Income tax,

Thats the point, neither of us sit in that cabinet but my guess is that was a primary consideration ... that is why it was relevant
 
OttersBoro said:
What do you think?
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At the moment you have a choice…
It may soon disappear. That will depend on us all, because while you’re having your cosy little discussions about the merits of policy and personalities, Someone, will very soon be digging a huge hole beneath your right to put another party in
to government.
Weren’t you warned? Never, never, ever trust a fkn Tory

www.theguardian.com

Tory MPs call it reform, but the elections bill looks more like a heist

Alongside mandating voter ID, the government plans to keep the Electoral Commission – which oversees elections – in check, says Guardian columnist Rafael Behr
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Lemmy_kilmister said:
"never once or considered voting Tory, though voted Lib Dem as many times as Labour"
"I am not a lifelong Labour supporter, most of the time not all the time"

WELCOME BACK COOPER6711!!!!!
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Lemmy

My support for Labour runs along a line of John Smith, Tony Blair, David Milliband, Keir Starmer.. they are the Labour that I respect and think put the country first. Obviously problems especially with Blair but they all knew they had to modernise Labour, focus on the electorate to change the UK.

Equally the Labour of Hatton, McCluskey, Corbyn, Burgon is not what I want to be associated with and would not want to vote for. I believe you were in the armed forces was Corbyn popular? Wouldnt people in the forces be swayed by his association with Gerry Adams?

if your point is Cooper flip flopped in the degree of support for Labour, then thats me to.

Anyway I'll sign off
 
OttersBoro said:
Roofie, the thread wasnt about whether NI is regressive, its whether NI was chosen as it protects pensioners versus income Tax. Pensioners would be hit to a much greater extent if they had used Income tax,

Thats the point, neither of us sit in that cabinet but my guess is that was a primary consideration ... that is why it was relevant
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I decide what comments I make - which are relevant from my point of view and experience.
Im not arguing.
So please dont bother.
 
sambaDTR said:
Just one thing about taxes. What does all the taxes on motorists pay for? When you buy a car you pay VAT, when you get an MOT or pay a garage bill you pay VAT, you pay yearly car tax and you pay more tax on fuel. Driving around, it certainly is not spent on the roads.
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You pay double tax on fuel: fuel duty and VAT.

Although our road are in a better shape than, say America where they don't have car tax. The roads are poor.
 
sambaDTR said:
Just one thing about taxes. What does all the taxes on motorists pay for? When you buy a car you pay VAT, when you get an MOT or pay a garage bill you pay VAT, you pay yearly car tax and you pay more tax on fuel. Driving around, it certainly is not spent on the roads.
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Nuclear subs, NHS, etc
Majority of spending on roads comes from Council Tax.

The only hypothecated tax in the UK is the TV Licence, a tax on watching live TV which is wholly given to fund the BBC.
 
Muttley said:
Welcome to the board. Now fukk off there's a good little shill.

What a Tory can never understand, as ably demonstrated by your post, is that some people don't just want to look after number one. I'd rather my pension was made safe by them not stealing my house if I need to go into care. I'd also prefer it that they looked after the young people and gave them a fair chance in life. So not lock away wealth and privilege for the top 5% like they do. I'd rather they ran the NHS properly instead of as a cash cow for their chums (same for care homes). I'd rather natural monopolies like water were in public hands and not sold to profiteering scum bag associates of the ruling class (or the highest bidder). I'd rather public transport was run as a non profit making service to enable people to travel without forcing them into cars. There's more but you wouldn't understand.

But mostly I just wish that the Tories would just fukk right off and when they get there fukk off some more.
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Do you speak like that to people face to face, ? Is this board inclusive of all opinions or are only left wing group think opinions allowed.
 
If taxation was applied fairly across the population there would be no need for this increase.

the working classes are being increasingly penalised through taxes whilst receiving less and less in return.
The provision of services to the working classes compared to many comparable countries is pathetic and it is an absolute disgrace.

the conservatives have failed whole swathes of communities, they have or are in the process of destroying even more.

It is soul destroying what they have done to this country and I really do fear for my old age and my children’s general future.
 
The Conservative mantra of living within your means doesn’t seem to apply to Johnson and co. We aren’t paying for social care we’re paying for mismanagement and failed policy, the way money has been prioritised and misspent is criminal and this latest volte face by Johnson, shows that he’s a whim politician without any long to mid term strategy, I liken it to a family living in a house they can’t afford, with two brand new cars on the drive having to borrow money of someone in a small house with one old car on the drive to pay for their kids school dinners.

The fear of many was that Corbyn’s policies would be unaffordable without tax increases yet their defending Johnson for doing the same, not to expand services but, to maintain them, which seems a bit of non-joined up thinking.
 
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