How have people / people values changed over the decades?

[atypical_boro]

Younger people try to annoy older people by making them out to be out of touch and intellectually inferior. (This is the main reason for all the changes in attitudes towards diversity we’ve had. JSO, BLM, #metoo etc.)

Older people talk down to younger people about how easy they have it now and how everything used to be better. (This is the main reason for Brexit and the rebirth of apprenticeships and vinyl, even though most of it is now pressed from CD.)

It’s a tale as old as time, none of it is actually new.

(Then there are those of us in our forties who are damn near perfect and get on EVERYONE’s nerves with our lethal cocktail of progression AND wisdom ).

 

[swordtrombonefish]

Not sure if it is also linked to the drop in trade union membership over those 50 years as well. Computers and the Internet is of course the big change over this period, some of which has been good some bad along with mobile phones which almost seem to be an extension of young people now. They live part of their lives online and not in the physical presence. Again it is not necessarily bad, just different.

As Musk said, if we take the mobile chip and integrate it into humans we'd become a cyborg, and it may just save us as we'd be integrated with AI or kill us faster than we are doing it ourselves.

 

[mercury_redstone7]

The drug use and weak generations. Low standards full of tears and fears and mental health issues.

 

[Emmersons_BrazillianDong]

Gen Z and Millenials to me seem more rounded than the older generations, less judgemental and more concerned about environment, gender and race equality than traditional class values. Older generations, like mine are the ones who have become selfish and are reluctant to let others have the chances we had.

Agree with this generally. I'm not in the boomer generation (not yet 40) but I see so much promise in young people compared to when I was that age.

Generally smart young people who get into shape, much less binge drinking and tend to be more rounded. It's one of the few glimpses of hope after the past 15 years of shyteness we're seeing.

Most of the ignorance that I witness is also amongst the older generations rather than that in my own or the younger generation as much.

 

[Fat_Dragon]

I think Gen Z are more health conscious. They seem to drink and smoke less although vaping seems it might be starting to buck the trend. Just shows what clever marketing can do.

 

[Rishworthian]

-What was life like in the 40s ? cold. I knew no one with central heating

private transport for most of us didn't exist

Think about that for starters

 

[equaliser]

The final change I've noticed is a little sinister, and that is a learned disdain for education. In the last 15-20 years I've noticed an increased attitude amongst the worst off in society that they neither need nor want education. Usually this is followed by pointing to a rare example like Alan Sugar of a success despite a lack of education. We seem to have drifted a long way from education as the best liberator of potential from the mid-90s.

I think this attitude has always existed, and probably more so in the past. If you read Lynsey Hanley's 'Respectable: Crossing the Class Divide' about growing up on a Birmingham 'sink estate' in the 80s/90s, she writes:
“there are always so many kids for whom eleven or more years of formal education seem barely to touch the sides – we were supposedly ready for the worlds of work or further study, but none which required any more brainpower than we’d arrived with. At the end of the process of dulling it was difficult to maintain the belief we had the power to shape our lives, if not the circumstances we found ourselves in. It was the kindest thing to do really: it would been dangerous to make children aware of their own power before being sent into the factories, vans, shops and caffs we were already headed for.”
According to Hanley, since the 90s and the moral panic about an emerging ‘underclass’:
“the state has presented ever more forcefully the idea that working-class individuals need to change in order to qualify as full citizens. In the words of the sociologist Val Gillies, the education strategy of recent governments can be summed up thus: ‘for the sake of children’s future and the stability and security of society as a whole, working-class parents must be taught to raise middle-class children’.”
What I've observed is an increasing anxiety among parents and students about the outcomes of education - look at the boom in private tuition - which in my opinion is directly traceable to John Major bringing in school league tables and the requirement that schools 'compete'. This has caused school leaderships to cascade their anxieties downwards, onto teachers - who now all 'teach to the test' - and onwards to parents/children, making the whole process narrow and joyless. The result is a generation of fact-regurgitaters who often emerge from the process mentally sick.
Sure, there are some parents who disdain the utility of education, but that's arguably more commensurate with the historical norm described by Hanley.
Part of the problem nowadays is that school appears trapped not in the 20th century, but in the 19th. In style and design, it's an industrialised prison for the offspring of factory workers essentially. But we live in a much more fluid, adaptive world/economy now, where Google, not the teachers, holds all the answers. Education needs to become much more flexible and individualised, with a wellbeing-led curriculum designed to develop rounded critical thinkers, not exam droids.

 

[HolgateCorner]

I'm sorry but I feel it does. How can we have record numbers going to university but still have a skills shortage? Clearly we are not educating people in the correct/required subjects. This is why I'd rather see lower numbers going to university but for it to be state funded.
I'd also argue that a skills shortage isn't purely about university education. I work in engineering in the NE and I can see the skills shortage almost daily. That said I left university with a degree in engineering, but I'd argue this did little more than get me my first position within the Steel Industry. What developed my engineering skills more than anything was the training and knowledge I gained at British Steel. We have lost many of the major employers with their training schemes. In addition companies carry smaller workforces. When I started I can think of at least 8 people who'd get me involved in things, had time to explain things. Nowadays it doesn't feel like this is the case.

This is a very deep subject and I do agree with much of what you say.

I‘m posting more as a parent on this thread and from the point of view that in my opinion these days there are two separate workforce salary streams.

A non graduate will generally struggle to get much above minimum wage unless they start doing extreme lifestyle choices like working offshore or abroad etc.

A graduate will at least have a chance of entering a stream which has potential to earn much bigger as time and experience goes on. Most professional institutions require degrees these days for chartered engineers unless you are happy to wait 20 years for mature entry.

I think the days of someone working their way up to the top from being a drawing office or shop floor apprentice are long long gone, rightly or wrongly.

 

[Rishworthian]

Adding to the 40s thoughts most meat was on coupons - what that meant was if you had enough coupons you could buy some meat. If you had not you did without

Sweets were rationed too. You needed coupons to be able to buy sweets

Mind you could usually borrow a cup of sugar whilst the weekend from next door or some milk

No food banks. No theft from houses. No tele. You read a book or listened to the radio only Home Service - Light Programme and the third programme but no one I knew listened to that.

 

[guisborough_rob]

1. The proliferation of litter; I don’t remember the industrial amounts on roadsides or in the country that there is now when growing up in the 60s.
2. Noise; people like to make themselves heard now at the expense of others’ pleasure. Talking out loud at the cinema or theatre or during quiet sections of gigs. It’s very prevalent. I even noticed some wags shouting out daft things after a player took a shot at the Open last week. If I had done that when I was younger, my mum or dad would have bollocked or clattered me. Most likelyboth.
3. Parenting; already covered on here in detail but suffice to say that decent parents are exceptions rather than the norm now. Happily, the few young parents that I know are great hopes for the future.

What’s the common strand here? People feeling that it is their right to behave how they want with a ‘don’t-give-a-damn’ attitude for anyone else or how it affects the society they are supposedly a part of.

 

[Will_Graham]

I agree and I think social media has a lot to do with this. People posting pictures of flash cars and flash holidays etc and a lot of people trying to compete with one another. I find it cringworthy tbh and it's one of the reasons I've never been on social media such as facebook.

To be fair, those type of discussions seem to also happen on here. Maybe innocently but they do happen.

I have learned recently from different threads where people go on holiday, what they do on holiday, roughly how much they earn, how many/which type of cars they drive and how big their mortgage is.

In my opinion, for what it's worth, the biggest change in the last 40 yrs is an increase in choice. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

 

[NorthumberlandBoro]

People seem to be judged on what they spend rather on what they earn.

 

[Will_Graham]

People seem to be judged on what they spend rather on what they earn.

It should be neither really.

 

[Rishworthian]

To the best of my knowledge there were not many shared toilets on Teesside but it was quite common in the West Riding and Sheffield / Rotherham. A dozen houses with 4/6 toilets shared between them all. You didn't mess them up

Sharing / caring is much more rare - I can do what I like brigade. I've never come across a sensible answer to thew question so I can thump you then -'cause I can do what I like

 

[Rishworthian]

I remember when Morrisons moved in Sutton in Surrey the locals wouldn't shop there because the plastic bags were see through / transparent and people could see what you had bought

Who does that make sense to ?

 

[Nero]

As I’ve got older I certainly started to realise how changes implemented by Thatcher were deliberately designed to benefit only those with so called capital. The economic model of Britain is so uneven it’s astonishing. A small minority are doing very well out of it. Just enough are comfortable to the point they don’t have to think about it.

I never thought about the class system as a kid, but now understand it hasn’t gone away. Everything is aimed at keeping it place. From the Royal family, to private schools, to private ownership of media companies. People who just happen to be born into it are almost guaranteed a highly paid job and a wealthy life. If you’re a kid born into a fragile family in a poor area good luck changing your life.

Having travelled quite a bit with work my perspective has also changed. Humans are all very similar with the exact basic needs. It doesn’t matter where in the world someone happens to be. I do not see the point of patriotism at all as a result.

Human society in general needs a massive reboot but will never happen until a disaster type event.

 

[mercury_redstone7]

Younger people try to annoy older people by making them out to be out of touch and intellectually inferior. (This is the main reason for all the changes in attitudes towards diversity we’ve had. JSO, BLM, #metoo etc.)

Older people talk down to younger people about how easy they have it now and how everything used to be better. (This is the main reason for Brexit and the rebirth of apprenticeships and vinyl, even though most of it is now pressed from CD.)

It’s a tale as old as time, none lf it is actually new.

(Then there are those of us in our forties who are damn near perfect and get on EVERYONE’s nerves with our lethal cocktail of progression AND wisdom ).

Agree with this generally. I'm not in the boomer generation (not yet 40) but I see so much promise in young people compared to when I was that age.

Generally smart young people who get into shape, much less binge drinking and tend to be more rounded. It's one of the few glimpses of hope after the past 15 years of shyteness we're seeing.

Most of the ignorance that I witness is also amongst the older generations rather than that in my own or the younger generation as much.

I agree Emerson I see my own Grandson has a lot of confidence and is shining, and I hold out great hopes for the new generations, my grand daughter is the last year coming up of her nursing degree along with a part time job she has she`s a good grafter.
I like to see young uns do well, and its no different to other eras and generations except.

In my experience only of course.

I'm a borderline boomer, born at the very beginning of the 1960`s. I have no beef with the younger generations, I have children 33,37,42,43 and grandchildren 9 and 19. I worship them all all day long.
I was of the thought you only get out of them what you put in, in general they have done really well really tbh, but me and the wife worked hard to provide them with what they needed, allowing them to see and do things, go places, and climb higher inside to express themselves.
You can only steer them with high standards and expectations., kids wont do well if its- do as you please , low effort and little cost to your own time.

The post war generation

My old fella and old girl worked hard, he was an Iron Moulder serving his time at Dorman's, he was always on price work out of his time. (no work no pay) my mam was a clerk/ manager from a youngish age for a woman in those days.
By the time they were 30 1962 they had saved and mortgaged up for a brand new build bungalow in a considered posh area. The old fella - I never seen him drunk ( maybe once in France) and he never raised his hand to me. He came from a tough part of Middlesbrough to begin with, but later the family got a brand new house in Bruce Avenue - Whiney Banks.

The Tories never gave him dreams to aspire to, they never gave me any aspirations, dreams, or secrets shortcuts try to do well, and despite the country being ruined by the Tories since I can remember (its not a new thing) I think we have been in recession during all of the Tory governments.

I have been out with group of lads were the father and son smoke weed or take coke, bought nearby where they live, the neighbours must love em. This isnt rock n roll this just Scruffy cnts. Ibve been abroad were half witted blokes take drugs, not even contemplating what would happen if they were arrested.



But.

By some on here blaming working hard and buying things = greed and therefore is wrong. PLEASE STOP equating dreams, aspirations, goals, aims, personal wealth to be wrong and that its Just a Tory ideal.
Working hard for money buys you time and freedom from the man.

Society does exist, despite what Thatcher said, we get out of it what we put in. If you treat your local community to use and buy drugs (arsevipe saying = recreational use ffs), if you rob and cheat and spoil in your community, and show a low regard for it just because isn't in a high council tax band - that's the community and area you will have and live amongst.

Druggies.

I have been out with group of lads were the father and son smoke weed or take coke, bought nearby where they live, the neighbours and community must love em.
This isn't rock n roll cool- this is just Scruffy cnts.
I've been abroad were half witted blokes take drugs, not even contemplating what would happen if they were arrested.
The way we treat our own community's, our own neighbours, friends, and family at times - is appalling - but hey its recreational.

I don't want a argument, or any nastiness - I'm not trying to wind anybody up in the slightest and I know with this forum its easily triggered.
I guess I`m deemed to be a Dinosaur -I know I probably am, but I find all the new thinking isn't helping as much as it perhaps should. Maybe it is, its a bit confusing.
My generation, personally I wanted to go to tech college, have a trade, fix engines build stuff, make things, know how to do things myself, that's what I did I did not want to be sitting down all day at a desk.

As a Boomer to on Teesside to show timid character and not meet any problems head on in my family was a sign of weakness, especially in a man, so bursting into tears didn't do any good to anyone, and if the father in the home during times of strife cant handle things, then the rest will watch the ship go down.

I have been absolutely shocked to the core at how many posters on here here have major mental health issues, and not know how to deal with problems. Its easier to count the ones who don't have them. I've never experienced this at work now or previously amongst close or not close friends. I do admire how on here they all rally around each other.

One fella on here said he couldn't face going to his local shop to buy some milk as it would be to much of an ordeal, so he stopped off work and stayed in bed all day, its so very sad when we aren't prepared for the simple things in life.


I'm old and old fashioned, and will never change I guess, I was trained, indoctrinated and brought up that way , I worked in places were you had to be very thick skinned at times, yet people on here hold steel works and and heavy engineering work places in reverence.

The other thing was that - diversity is an under 40 thing,?
We were listening to musicians of all colours and creeds, and sexual preference, we had the Anti - Fascist league, Rock against Racism from the late 1960s. The only difference now is the 132 University's need filling, with kids, these were previously undreamt of figures and now all these kids have a political agenda and new battle they want to fight.
This battleground is gender and Trans gender, another thing I`m really at a loss to understand what its about?

The big thing in my day was racism and most young urns from poor backgrounds who were gay ran off to a London to do their own thing away from the norm. Some of them went to Uni, others followed the Arts.

 

[Andy_W]

Random thought crossed my mind.

Just wondering what people thoughts are regards to how people / peoples values / society / society’s values have changed over the years?

Suppose the obvious ones would be more acceptance towards racial diversity and homosexuality.

I’d be interested to know what the older members think regards to how the ‘average Joe’ has changed over the decades? Or maybe he hasn’t?

Any thought or musing are appreciated!

The UK and USA are changing rapidly, and will get more and more diverse, accepting, green, left etc. The politics of the nations dictate just about everything, and it's changing. It used to be the case that people got more and more tory over time, as they got older and older and more and more money. Now though, as too much wealth has gone to the old, too quickly, and not giving the younger folk a chance (largely house price increases and junk wages) it's made trends do a complete 180, starting with the millenials.

This info below is important, for everything, the results of it will dictate the directions of travel over time, and where we end up.


Silent - 1928-45 - Around 78-95 Years old
Boomers - 1946-64 - Around 59-77 Years old
Gen X - 1965-80 - Around 43-58 Years old
Millenial/ Gen Y - 1981-96 - Around 27-42 Years old
Zoomers/ Gen Z - 1997-12 - Around 11-26 Years old
Alpha - 2010-Current - Around 0-13 Years old





Being crude, the heavy voting, heavy tory/ right silent genaration don't have that long left, and by the time of the 2030 election the boomers will be 66-84, and drifting away also. Turnout in older voters is getting worse, and effectively the Tory/ right support is dying and are not being replaced. Every year the millenials (and yougner I assume) are turning out to vote more, and voting less and less tory, so all of the above was effectively guaranteeing a future tory/ right capitulation. The thing is, they actually have enough core support to potentially win an election for the next one or maybe the one after that, but after then, they're done for. The thing is, as they've chosen to be further right for the last couple of elections (in order to cling onto power), which has basically sealed their fate for the next election, and they probably just won't have the core numbers after that one. The overall result of this is that the left should progress more and more and more, as they get more and more certainty that they're effectively going to win every election going forwards. Probably means the end of the Tories, and maybe labour v lib dem or whatever in a decade or two.

The thing is, the parents of the millenials are largely the boomers, so the millenials might end up inheriting a fair amount of wealth from them, which you might think would send them more tory, but it will come at a time when their politics are largely baked in to the left.

Big changes coming over the next decade I think (and after).

 

[SNEEKERS]

Better attitude to hygiene now, the 70s was pretty rank...better awareness of health in general, smoking IS bad for you ! so is too much alcohol.
Not putting up with inappropriate comments to anyone black, gay or female.
Common sense generally.
Freedom does not stretch to not wearing a seat belt or helmet an argument that was often used back in those "halcyon" days.

 

[BobUpnDown]

They are pretty much the same though with both a far wider social network & world / cultural exposure due to internet.. & narrow clique minded as they gravitate into echo chambers that re-enforce, hone their view..

The above can affect all generations..

I was surprised at the younger approval of the new king / royal family when compared against the older generation that polled against the sham that the Royal sharabang is..