Humbling defeat

They got a lesson themselves at Charlton - they were probably a lot more relaxed and learned the lesson. We didn't play with nearly enough aggression to put them off their game. Even a top Premiership side can underperform against a lower league team if they get roughed up early. Instead we attempted to beat them at THEIR game and got properly stuffed because of it. Look at the speed they broke at compared to our 4 passes sideways and a hopeful pass forward with no name on it. We were comprehensively done in midfield, Crooks didn't work up front, Forss was a passenger and Giles wasn't any better than normal at defending. Howson was blowing with over 20 minutes left and couldn't reprise his heroics against Spurs. Yes, they were a LOT better than us. We move on - and hopefully learn our lesson.

It does not matter how we set up today, Brighton were just better, better in every single way.

Aggression, long balls, spoiling tactics, none of them work against a team playing at the top of their game with vastly better players.

We needed Brighton to make plenty of changes from their first team, be off their game and taking it for granted like Newcastle did, they didn't and were throughly professional. In that scenario we had no chance.

Singling out players is ridiculous.
 
It was evident after the first two minutes It was going to be a long afternoon. They had more pace. Better movement. More incisive passing.
Second half bordered on embarrassing, but thats possibly a bit harsh on Boro. We were given a good old fashioned reality check against a good Brighton team who played exceptionally well.
We move on. Not going to play a team of that quality again this season, so there's the positive from today 👍
 
Singling out players is ridiculous.
Taking your last line, I hope that is exactly what Michael Carrick will be looking at next week. I concur totally on the skill and ability level which Brighton possessed. But that served to highlight the shortcomings of our approach and the players mentioned.
 
As good as Brighton where today, I feel it was given too them due to the manner in which we performed.

We lacked intensity, aggression and belief in our play and ability.

Lets not forget the drew with Charlton in the league cup and where knocked out on penna with a not to different team to today!

Steele

Lamptey
Dunk
Colwill
Gross

Caicedo
Gilmour

Encisco
Lallanna
March

Undav
 
As good as Brighton where today, I feel it was given too them due to the manner in which we performed.

We lacked intensity, aggression and belief in our play and ability.

Lets not forget the drew with Charlton in the league cup and where knocked out on penna with a not to different team to today!

Steele

Lamptey
Dunk
Colwill
Gross

Caicedo
Gilmour

Encisco
Lallanna
March

Undav

If Brighton played us with the same intensity and mindset as they did versus Charlton we might have won doing exactly what we did.

They didn’t and we had no answer and neither would Charlton.
 
There’s no way we’d play that open in the league. When is the last time you saw a player as wide open like that at the riverside as we saw for the first goal.
 
If Brighton played us with the same intensity and mindset as they did versus Charlton we might have won doing exactly what we did.

They didn’t and we had no answer and neither would Charlton.
Its opinions, personally even though the side suggested we wanted to win, I dont believe that we went for the game or played in a maaner that suggested as much!

We are much better than we delivered today and I agree that Brighton where far better on the day and we would of had to have been at our ultimate best and still have luck.

Personally aslong as it doesnt destroy our confidence and momentum in the league I am not to bothered about today and wish brighton good luck, we are building something special and today just shows the staff, club and players the level we are striving to get too and the hard work and patience needed to get there!

UTB
 
I think I speak for all of us when I say we can only hope that in future we'll be more like Charlton. Charlton are what we're aspiring to.
 
It was good of him to stand on the touchline and keep telling Forss and Smith to not get within 20 yards of Mitoma, then to try keep playing it out down our right flank whilst Mitoma and Estupiñán closed us down and either dispossessed us or panicked us into slashing the ball away.
To be fair it's probably the first game Carrick has come up against significantly stronger opposition, you can't adopt the same tactics, and there's no point in doing it if the competition is ultimately worthless (which it is to us).

It's called not overexerting yourself into a full press, against probably the best player on the pitch that day, in a top 8 prem side, who would have then passed it back to a player where Smith or Forss had just came from, or skipped passed them and created a 2 v 1 further up the pitch. Same as defending narrow rather than trying to cover the full width of the pitch, it's often safer, albeit still not safe, but there is no safe option.

Forss is a development player, isn't a right-sided attacker of a three like that, and has little chance of defending that, and Smith was a free transfer, hardly the end of the world.

Diving in at players that good just leaves you completely out of position and with a much worse structure than if you sat off and congested it.

It's why teams don't go full press or attack Man City, they want you do that so they can work it around you and create gaps through the lines and in behind.

It's like the equivalent of telling players to go and dive in on Messi, it won't end well, just let them have the ball and standoff, ideally in between the player and your goal, and hope they give it to someone else who you have a chance of tackling. Same as when you play 5 a side, you don't dive in on quick/ skilful players or they just make a mug of you, and then have a free run at speed against the next unlucky suspect.

If you're a weaker side your best chance of getting anything is to go half-court and just make the spaces in your half tighter. It still doesn't have a high chance of success, as you're playing against a much better side, and you still need to stop them, and outscore them.

Going full pelt, when you're already behind, in a competition which ultimately won't matter just seems like an additional pointless risk to me.

Leeds tried the full press thing in the prem, against similar sides, and they had better and fitter players than us, and it burnt the players out and they got loads of injuries, and they were doing that only in the competition they cared about which is 8 less games. They went out FA Cup R3, and LD R2. It might work short term, but hurts long term, it got Biesla the sack.

When we're in the play-offs, looking back and thinking about getting beat by a top 8 prem side won't be happening.
 
To be fair it's probably the first game Carrick has come up against significantly stronger opposition, you can't adopt the same tactics, and there's no point in doing it if the competition is ultimately worthless (which it is to us).

It's called not overexerting yourself into a full press, against probably the best player on the pitch that day, in a top 8 prem side, who would have then passed it back to a player where Smith or Forss had just came from, or skipped passed them and created a 2 v 1 further up the pitch. Same as defending narrow rather than trying to cover the full width of the pitch, it's often safer, albeit still not safe, but there is no safe option.

Forss is a development player, isn't a right-sided attacker of a three like that, and has little chance of defending that, and Smith was a free transfer, hardly the end of the world.

Diving in at players that good just leaves you completely out of position and with a much worse structure than if you sat off and congested it.

It's why teams don't go full press or attack Man City, they want you do that so they can work it around you and create gaps through the lines and in behind.

It's like the equivalent of telling players to go and dive in on Messi, it won't end well, just let them have the ball and standoff, ideally in between the player and your goal, and hope they give it to someone else who you have a chance of tackling. Same as when you play 5 a side, you don't dive in on quick/ skilful players or they just make a mug of you, and then have a free run at speed against the next unlucky suspect.

If you're a weaker side your best chance of getting anything is to go half-court and just make the spaces in your half tighter. It still doesn't have a high chance of success, as you're playing against a much better side, and you still need to stop them, and outscore them.

Going full pelt, when you're already behind, in a competition which ultimately won't matter just seems like an additional pointless risk to me.

Leeds tried the full press thing in the prem, against similar sides, and they had better and fitter players than us, and it burnt the players out and they got loads of injuries, and they were doing that only in the competition they cared about which is 8 less games. They went out FA Cup R3, and LD R2. It might work short term, but hurts long term, it got Biesla the sack.

When we're in the play-offs, looking back and thinking about getting beat by a top 8 prem side won't be happening.
That's the way I saw our tactics. We were going to be in a tough game if we stood off in a low block and tried to keep as narrow as possible. But we'd be in for an even tougher game if we tried the full press for the whole game.

If McGree's chance went in, it'd have been a different game. We'd have still stayed in the same shape, but we wouldn't have to send people in support when we had chances on the break so we would have been tougher to break down. I don't know if we'd have been able to hold on to the lead if we had got it, they have some players - mainly the lad out wide and obviously Mac Allister - who were simply on another level to anything we've seen at the Riverside in a long time. And I count the players who played for Spurs and Chelsea when I say that.

Either way, as long as it doesn't affect the morale of the side for the rest of the season, I'm not too bothered about it. The competition isn't really winnable for us so I'd much rather we focused 100% on the league
 
Yeah
That's the way I saw our tactics. We were going to be in a tough game if we stood off in a low block and tried to keep as narrow as possible. But we'd be in for an even tougher game if we tried the full press for the whole game.

If McGree's chance went in, it'd have been a different game. We'd have still stayed in the same shape, but we wouldn't have to send people in support when we had chances on the break so we would have been tougher to break down. I don't know if we'd have been able to hold on to the lead if we had got it, they have some players - mainly the lad out wide and obviously Mac Allister - who were simply on another level to anything we've seen at the Riverside in a long time. And I count the players who played for Spurs and Chelsea when I say that.

Either way, as long as it doesn't affect the morale of the side for the rest of the season, I'm not too bothered about it. The competition isn't really winnable for us so I'd much rather we focused 100% on the league

Yeah, too many on this thread are focusing too much on the damage we suffered, without factoring in what the damage could have been. Or the risk V reward, lost of chance of risk increase, next to<10% possibility of reward in that game (when people wanted to change tactics), and 0% of getting to a final, never mind winning it.

You're right about it being a different game if we needed no further goals, but Brighton looked even more dangerous at 0-0, when they knew they had to press on and try and win. When they were ahead I still think they toned it back. I wouldn't have wanted to see them go full pelt at us, and us going full pelt at them, ultimately it would have ended in the same outcome and we would have ended up with wrecked/ injured/ knackered players.

Bigger picture is far more important, as it always is.

The cups should be our no1 target when we're secure in the prem, but the worst time to target the is in this order:
When battling relegation from Champo (like the Woody season)
When battling for play-offs in Champo (where we are now)
When battling for relegation from prem
When battling to win the league in champo, as in guaranteed top 3 (this won't usually materialise as the league is far from decided when we're competing for cups)
When we have been top 12 for at least one season, and when are above mid table when the FA cup starts

I'd take 1 champo away win at the likes of Sheff Utd, Burnley, Norwich, WBA, Blackburn over beating any two prem sides in the cups, in one year, it's worth more to us. We've beat Norwich and Blackburn away in the last 6 league games alone, never mind beating Birmingham away and two other wins and a loss against the league leaders.

Put the cups in the bin, we don't need them yet, and won't for at least 4 years.
 
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