I have truly mixed feelings over derby...

Adi_Dem said:
They can *try* to claim so. But they will fail because this is vexatious litigation designed to leverage a club on its knees. The perceived 'damage' is too remote, fails causation tests and as such the claim is simply designed so that MFC can benefit from the buggeration factor. Derby broke the rules in several ways, received punishment according to the rules of the competition set at the outset and our club is now pursuing a claim for loss that in reality cannot be proven purely our of either spite or to shake down a club in real trouble.
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It won't fail because it won't ever get to court. There simply isn't enough time for that, as that would mean Derby ceasing to exist. Gibson and Couhig will be made offers of compensation from a prospective new owner, which they will ultimately accept, and a new owner will then take over Derby.
 
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uncle_rico said:
It won't fail because it won't ever get to court. There simply isn't enough time for that, as that would mean Derby ceasing to exist. Gibson and Couhig will be made offers of compensation from a prospective new owner, which they will ultimately accept, and a new owner will then take over Derby.
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That's how I see it too. And the demonisation of Gibson in the press (talking about us 'demading £45m based on a missed EPL season etc.) is most likely a tactic by the Administrators to put pressure on Gibson to reduce what he will accept as compensation thus making it more attractive to the potential new owner.
 
Derby County FC and Mell Morris are the ones who don't care about their fans, they only cared about the business and money. Like any other badly managed business with debt, liabilities and potential legal action, they will have to suffer the consequences.

Like all football clubs in recent years, once the above happens and it all falls down they play the "but you can't, what about the fans!?" card.

It's hard to accept as football means far more to the fans than business and money ever will and because of that the EFL, EPL and FA must do more to safeguard football clubs against businessmen/women who will run clubs to the wall for a stiff at PL money then walk away.

It's long past time in this country when fans should have a meaningful say in how every single club is run.
 
uncle_rico said:
It won't fail because it won't ever get to court. There simply isn't enough time for that, as that would mean Derby ceasing to exist. Gibson and Couhig will be made offers of compensation from a prospective new owner, which they will ultimately accept, and a new owner will then take over Derby.
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Exactly my point. It is a case designed to either leverage a posiion or to put Derby out of business. Not a good look.
 
Chris_Boro said:
Like all football clubs in recent years, once the above happens and it all falls down they play the "but you can't, what about the fans!?" card.
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exactly, they weren't worried about the fans when they were paying 4mill for Mason Mount and Harry wilsons loan fees and wages that they couldn't afford. It's quite amusing that they failed to get promoted with those two in the team particularly Mount.
 
Adi_Dem said:
Exactly my point. It is a case designed to either leverage a posiion or to put Derby out of business. Not a good look.
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Given it was started over a year ago, I think we can completely rule out the latter .

No one can truly know the motivation unless the club come out and say, but I suspect it was started to put pressure on the EFL to reform after so many clubs have got away relatively lightly with breaking the rules, and continue to do so.
 
Adi_Dem said:
Exactly my point. It is a case designed to either leverage a posiion or to put Derby out of business. Not a good look.
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I do not imagine that the idea in Gibson's head is even close to that (nor the Wycombe Chairman - who seems to miss out on the Derby vitriol). We are just arguing about the amount of compensation.

The argument now seems to be that they are being "forced" to sell players. Yep that's what happens when you have no money, you have to sell your assets. I have lost what residual sympathy I had for the Derby fans. I know it is just the gobby fkkwits that are wishing death upon Gibbo and such but they were "en masse" guilty of the "We're Derby County We Do What We Want" attitude and the cartoons of Morris as the Puppet Master.

The stadium remains a problem for me. As it is no longer the property of DCFC but some holding company belonging to Morris (IIRC). If he were so minded could he simply "donate" the stadium back to the club for a small "settlement" with new owners thus effectively DCFC getting away with the dodge of selling the stadium in the first place?

In truth the EFL have made a right mess of this, they should have relegated DCFC at the end of last season and re-instated Wycombe, with the points deduction to be added this season. The Championship is not the PL in terms of remuneration, but it is a lot healthier place to be that the third tier as Sunderland have found out and the desperation in Derby to avoid it shows. If Derby were to survive this season, yes it would be an incredible achievement in a sporting context, but it would make the EFL "punishment" for years of misdemeanours utterly meaningless. Hardly the salutary lesson for any other owner tempted to try something similar.
 
Air Resistance said:
No one can truly know the motivation
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I doubt there is a single motivation:

- revenge for Mel Morris's behaviour at EFL board meetings
- anger at Derby's duplicitous behaviour
- compensation for lost revenue
- to preserve integrity of competitive sport by ensuring full accountability for failure
- ethics, to stop Derby gaining an advantage from administration by regrouping and wiping out huge parts of debts
- a warning shot to others that one team cheating deprives others of opportunity and that won't be tolerated

and probably whole host of other reasons. Fair play to him I say. Someone has to say enough is enough, I just wish the EFL would do it properly and particularly with relegated prem teams that had previously cheated (QPR and Bournemouth in particular)
 
Muttley said:
The argument now seems to be that they are being "forced" to sell players. Yep that's what happens when you have no money, you have to sell your assets.
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Derby fans seem to want to forego their responsibilities so that they can keep a competitive team....the reality is they cannot afford a competitive team due to overspend. The only way they can afford is for some of the debts and potential debts to be wiped out. I've yet to see a moral reason for wiping out some debt to keep their squad.

If they absolutely had nothing, no players, just an U23 team, I would say it's time to drop the claim because there is nothing left to gain. While they still have about 14 senior pros and 4 or 5 saleable young assets then I don't accept they have done everything they can to pay off debts. That isn't just the possible debt to us, but the rest of the administrative debts including 28mill to HMRC to fund public services and then all the small businesses that provide goods and services to them.
 
Quote from JPercy on Twitter a week back.....
"Going to regret this, I fear.. Derby’s biggest issue for takeover is Boro compo case. Little sign at this stage of resolution, though talks are on. Moral issue for Steve Gibson? Perhaps. Re: Derby rejecting bids while in admin, enough clubs are ***ed off. That’s not my fault"
 
BoroMart said:
Gibsons claim is a loss of chance, why choose waghorn as your example, Mason Mount and Harry Wilsons loan fees are equally as valid to look at.

Regardless of the permutations and unknowns, the fact is they broke the rules, and the fact is there is a potential of loss of chance. They didn't overspend to gain less advantage, they did it to gain advantage, the courts will decide, or maybe for once in his life Morris will do the right thing and pay due compensation
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Where is the contractual element or duty of care between MFC and DC that leads you to believe loss of chance is applicable?
 
MidlandsBoroFan said:
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but a live debate in parliament just after 2pm today discussing the Derby situation.
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Yeah because the HoP is usually packed... half of them will be asleep or on their phones

Government can't really get involved in a legal matter between 2 Ltd companies
 
BoroMart said:
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FAO @Adi_Dem
Given that the claim is confidential, MFC does not understand how people can assert it has no prospect of success.
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"At least two clubs, namely Middlesbrough and Wycombe, were directly affected by the cheating, albeit in different seasons. In simple terms so far as MFC is concerned, had Derby County not cheated, MFC would have been in the play-offs. However, Derby County did cheat and, as a result, MFC lost the opportunities that arise as result of that. "

This is why. I've set it out before. It is likely to fail basic tests of causation. What a ridiculous press release that is.
 
Adi_Dem said:
"At least two clubs, namely Middlesbrough and Wycombe, were directly affected by the cheating, albeit in different seasons. In simple terms so far as MFC is concerned, had Derby County not cheated, MFC would have been in the play-offs. However, Derby County did cheat and, as a result, MFC lost the opportunities that arise as result of that. "

This is why. I've set it out before. It is likely to fail basic tests of causation. What a ridiculous press release that is.
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What is 'ridiculous' about it?
 
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