IF you voted Conservative last time

Who are you most ashamed of?

  • Boris and the Tory party as a whole

    Votes: 17 68.0%
  • Yourself

    Votes: 2 8.0%
  • The media for exposing the continual malfeasance

    Votes: 6 24.0%

  • Total voters
    25
  • Poll closed .

r00fie1

Well-known member
And the anti-semitism. And Diane Abbott.
Sadly, very sadly, I live on a planet with Boris Johnson as PM
Because the Tories got 13,966,454 votes and Labour got 10,269,051 and a Landslide Majority
The public voted for an obvious buffoon, because of Corbyn.
There is nothing wrong about any of that.
No.
 

r00fie1

Well-known member
This. Again and Again and Again. Blame Brexit
Yes Brexit was a factor in that Corbyn's childish fence sitting gave the populace another reason to dislike him and his policies. And he didn't have one on Brexit.
Corbyn and his supporters are the reason we have Boris. It really is as simple as that.
The Labour Party finally saw what he'd done.
And now he's gone, damage done and we're still trying to pick up the pieces.
No.
 

changingman

Well-known member
The "they're all as bad as each other" argument presumably stems from people who previously didn't vote (for me it betrays a basic/lazy understanding and misinterpretation of the last 20-30 years of political history in this country).

We know that the disenfranchised were energised by Brexit and it seems a vote for Johnson at the last election was a way of "rubber stamping" their protest.

As for the future, the Overton window has definitely shifted significantly. Priority one should be ridding the country of Conservative rule as the very, very worst option of all those presented. Personally, I'd prefer a Labour party to be further left however Starmer has in effect been forced to follow the Overton shift, to do otherwise would create a vacuum which is risky going into an election.

It's worked before with Blair and I'm increasingly of the mind that it will work again. Once Labour are in power the debate can be pulled more towards the left for the following election (where, I predict, the Greens will make significant gains).
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.
 

SOTN0362

New member
If you are rich and you want to stop other people getting your money vote conservative

If you are poor and want to get other people's money vote socialist

If you are rich and want to stop other people getting your money but it's important to you for other people to see you as a good person vote liberal.

This is a handy pocket guide I keep with me in case I'm ever called upon to vote.
I really like that … so true
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.

The tories won the next two elections while the Labour leader pointlessly flexxed about how much he hated the left?
 

SuperStu

Well-known member
It's worked before with Blair and I'm increasingly of the mind that it will work again. Once Labour are in power the debate can be pulled more towards the left for the following election (where, I predict, the Greens will make significant gains

Sorry changingman, can't agree that Blair shifted left when in power. In fact, I don't think there's ever been a Labour government more left wing once in office, than they suggested they'd be when campaigning.

If that's your expectation, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment!
 
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LaPennaBianca

Well-known member
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.

It was a khaki election and the SDP split the Labour vote. Let's not rewrite history.
 

SmallTown

Well-known member
Sorry changingman, can't agree that Blair shifted left when in power. In fact, I don't think there's ever been a Labour government more left wing once in office, than they suggested they'd be when campaigning.

If that's your expectation, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment!
So you'd prefer a Tory government then?
 

Corcaigh_the_Cat

Well-known member
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.
We're a Tory nation. It's why we can't progress. That's the reality of the situation.

As our neighbours move forward and enjoy a higher standard of living we move slowly and steadily horizontally at best, at worst, as we're seeing and have done over the past decade, we move backwards.

We're a frightened electorate unable to think for ourselves. The media tell us what is best for us and we follow. That's the English way.
 

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
Boris Johnson is a bumbling disaster overall but is very good at spewing out a soundbite, hence which he was used to 'get Brexit done'. The Conservative Party realise that his PR failures are bringing an end to his reign, especially when they have Rishi Sunak waiting in the wings and who is everything that Johnson isn't.

They could lose the next election with Johnson at the helm but will probably win comfortably with Sunak.
 

gregorgregorovich

Well-known member
Starmer who lied through his teeth to get elected? That Starmer? It's still a no from me mate. I prefer politicians that I can trust. He isn't one of them.
And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.

And there are of course similarities with the last far left Labour Candidate.... Michael Foot.
He also bombed at the polls.
He also was mostly responsible for a large Tory majority.
And look what happened after that.
Yes there are similarities with Foot. The right of the Labour Party undermined him even more than they did Corbyn and that's saying something. After more than 30 years of controlling the Party, they spat their dummies out and left, the Gang of four, remember them. They even set up their own party, the SDP, oh look another similarity. Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone who voted for the SDP would have voted Labour, but a fair proportion would have done so. The Tories also had their 'Brexit' bounce then, the Falklands War, yet another similarity. As other people have stated, it seems party unity is only important when the right are in charge and expect the left to remain silent and keep paying their membership, keep tramping the streets to campaign and get the vote out, to keep praising the leadership as the new Messiahs, at least those that are left and haven't been kicked out on the flimsiest of accusations. I really try to remember unity is strength is a fact and not just a slogan, a pity those on the right of the Party can't do the same. Despite what I've just said, I have always voted Labour and probably always will, something too many on the right of the Party are unable to claim.By the way, this is a response to zzzm not bumface, I didn't mean to reply to your post.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
Yes there are similarities with Foot. The right of the Labour Party undermined him even more than they did Corbyn and that's saying something. After more than 30 years of controlling the Party, they spat their dummies out and left, the Gang of four, remember them. They even set up their own party, the SDP, oh look another similarity. Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone who voted for the SDP would have voted Labour, but a fair proportion would have done so. The Tories also had their 'Brexit' bounce then, the Falklands War, yet another similarity. As other people have stated, it seems party unity is only important when the right are in charge and expect the left to remain silent and keep paying their membership, keep tramping the streets to campaign and get the vote out, to keep praising the leadership as the new Messiahs, at least those that are left and haven't been kicked out on the flimsiest of accusations. I really try to remember unity is strength is a fact and not just a slogan, a pity those on the right of the Party can't do the same. Despite what I've just said, I have always voted Labour and probably always will, something too many on the right of the Party are unable to claim.By the way, this is a response to zzzm not bumface, I didn't mean to reply to your post.
This is a big part of the problem. The 'right' of the party (whoever they are) didn't need to undermine Corbyn he managed that so well all by himself.
When he got elected he had the opportuntiy to unite the party behind one of the greatest rises in membership ever. Instead he presided over a party rife with bullying, anti-semitism, factionalism and bitterness...... driven by Momentum and ended up with many actually leaving the Party.
You people are still in the background trying to undermine Starmer and are guilty of the very thing you accuse others of doing to Corbyn.
WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THE TORIES.
It's time to unite and learn the lessons of Corbyn's disasters.
 

changingman

Well-known member
Sorry changingman, can't agree that Blair shifted left when in power. In fact, I don't think there's ever been a Labour government more left wing once in office, than they suggested they'd be when campaigning.

If that's your expectation, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment!
Sorry, don't think I made that point very clearly.

Regardless of people's views of Starmer the Labour remains to the left of the Conservative party. I don't think they'll move further left once in power but I do think there will be trend over the medium term of a shifting of the Overton window towards the left.

Younger voters have very different priorities, they're not in thrall to an empire which ended over before they were born or historic European conflict which bears no resemblance to their reality. They have also (thankfully) grown up in multi-cultural societies. The Environment, Ethics and Morals do seem to be genuine differentiators and they're not going to find those solutions anywhere near the right of British politics.

PR would only accelerate this trend as well (see Germany and the Green party).
 

gregorgregorovich

Well-known member
Rea
This is a big part of the problem. The 'right' of the party (whoever they are) didn't need to undermine Corbyn he managed that so well all by himself.
When he got elected he had the opportuntiy to unite the party behind one of the greatest rises in membership ever. Instead he presided over a party rife with bullying, anti-semitism, factionalism and bitterness...... driven by Momentum and ended up with many actually leaving the Party.
You people are still in the background trying to undermine Starmer and are guilty of the very thing you accuse others of doing to Corbyn.
WE HAVE TO GET RID OF THE TORIES.
It's time to unite and learn the lessons of Corbyn's disasters.
Read more of my posts before you call me 'you people'.
 
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