In praise of EV'S

[Heam44]

No agenda from me, it’s just basic maths, and experience of running a fleet of vehicles, as part of my business. Personally I own twice as many ICE cars, as EV’s, not for long mind. I’ve owned about 20 ICE cars personally alone. As for the company, all our vans and HGV’s are staying as ICE as that makes the most sense now, we’ll be moving all cars to EV though, other than 4x4’s. Please explain my agenda?
What info/ examples are not accurate, feel free to debunk the Polo V ID3 posts above, you won’t though, as you can’t.

You’ve not owned an EV and are clearly biased against them, or you just like old, cheap cars, so why reply to posts looking at cars <3 year old, or on EV’s or even new cars in general?

Most people have a budget, either doing that monthly, yearly, or any timeframe. People have different budgets and different timeframes but the budget should include: Purchase price, sale price (estimate duration/ depreciation), finance, fuel price, insurance, VED, maintenance, tax benefits etc etc. The more detail, the better. You’re ignoring half the budget, and comparing different budgets or comparing different qualities of vehicle, making yourself look quite silly.

Everyone knows (or should know) garages make a lot of their money from finance, and can almost structure any deal to any monthly cost, to trick people, which is exactly why I keep mentioning TCO, and specific budgets/ 3 year costs or whatever. You keep comparing smaller budgets and older cars, with larger budgets and better/ newer cars, which are not like for like. You might like a 5-10 year old car, with old tech, that’s your choice. Most people would prefer a newer car, some can’t afford one, or have different priorities, which are all fair enough. You can’t dictate peoples budgets and priorities though, same as I can’t, but I can compare what people can get for each budget.

Your last paragraph was pure dog turd, the car market is moving on without you, as are the manufacturers.

Andy, Do you own a haulage company?

 

[Laughing]

Does anybody actually care enough about someone elses choice of car for this thread to go on and on. I am not very sure it's offerring anything after the first couple of pages.

If you love electric cars and the savings they provide, great. If you love your petrol cars and the driving experience they provide, great too. I just can't understand why anyone else cares about someone elses choice of car. It doesn't even register on the scale of something you might be judgemental about.

 

[Tom_Boro]

Does anybody actually care enough about someone elses choice of car for this thread to go on and on. I am not very sure it's offerring anything after the first couple of pages.

If you love electric cars and the savings they provide, great. If you love your petrol cars and the driving experience they provide, great too. I just can't understand why anyone else cares about someone elses choice of car. It doesn't even register on the scale of something you might be judgemental about.

This post nails it. End of thread.

 

[SmallTown]

This post nails it. End of thread.

Assuming you don't understand why the post exists at all. It is to try and dispell myths about EV like "range anxiety" and cost and ease of refuelling.

It's good to set the record straight in case people are thinking of owning an EV but are put off by the lies that the ICE car industry is spreading to save it's more polluting vehicles. It's clear from just the gents responses that this lies are pretty pervasive. A lot of people believe them. Which is why it's good to get an EV owners perspective in case people are wondering about buying one but think there will be porblems, that don't exist.

 

[Nobby_Barnes]

Anyone got anymore lies to share ?
No....Err I think that wraps this one up then
Thanks

 

[Andy_W]

Andy, Do you own a haulage company?

Not haulage for others, but we haul our own kit and machinery all over the country. Vehicle wise, we've got three vans, a 4x4 pickup, a low loader, a beavertail and two company cars, and I handle the costs of all of those, as well as buying/selling/finance etc. I also help another couple of smaller companies with their choices (they're based in our yard), and family/ friends etc.

 

[Andy_W]

Does anybody actually care enough about someone elses choice of car for this thread to go on and on. I am not very sure it's offerring anything after the first couple of pages.

If you love electric cars and the savings they provide, great. If you love your petrol cars and the driving experience they provide, great too. I just can't understand why anyone else cares about someone elses choice of car. It doesn't even register on the scale of something you might be judgemental about.

Not really, I don't particularly care what people choose. I'm just providing information (ideally like for like comparisons) so people can make the best choice, for them. Some people have an interest in helping others, or providing information, some others will just let people spend more than they need to, for something that is worse in many areas.

I've only done this as there are a massive amount of misconceptions about what the true cost of a vehicle is, and this is massively amplified with EV's, as very few have any experience of them. Even some EV owners have no clue about what it is or isn't costing them to charge at home, what a battery with xx kWh means, what differing speeds of charger can do, how long they can expect to wait at a charger before they even arrive etc. If some EV owners don't know then it's likely that more ICE owners don't either. Some ICE owners can't even work out MPG for their cars, they will know what miles they can get for X amount of £, but they might struggle to compare that to an EV's fuel cost, and this is a massive factor.

I'm more interested in helping people do the numbers (all the numbers) to the best accuracy, then they can make their choice after that.

If people want to make their choice based on half the numbers, and try and compare an apple with an egg, then they're more than welcome to do that of course.

From my experience (and everyone else I know who has owned an EV or two, and many ICE vehicles previous), they agree the EV downsides are overstated and the cost savings are understated or at least massively misunderstood.

 

[SmallTown]

I would echo that last paragraph. The issue is the exaggerated and untrue claims remain which is why it’s a reasonable thing for those of us who have experienced EVs to allay these fears and bust these myths.

I actually saw someone on twitter repeat that ludicrous and quickly disproven meme about EVs being stuck in long traffic jams and all running out of fuel. These things have been dismissed as nonsense but still persist and we have people like Gent repeating them

 

[Muttley]

Does anybody actually care enough about someone elses choice of car for this thread to go on and on. I am not very sure it's offerring anything after the first couple of pages.

Why comment on the thread at all then?

If people are enjoying the exchange of information or just having a bit of an argument leave them to it. Same as politics threads, F1 or anything else on here.

 

[SmallTown]

Why comment on the thread at all then?

If people are enjoying the exchange of information or just having a bit of an argument leave them to it. Same as politics threads, F1 or anything else on here.

Given who it is that made that comment I have a feeling he's just annoyed because people are engaging on my thread and not insulting me. It's his thing.

It's a good point though: Why come on to a thread to state we shouldn't be discussing things? It's really bizarre behaviour but it happens a lot on this board. I would look at a 13 page thread and, even if it wasn't on a subject I'm interested in, would assume people are engaged enough to keep the discussion going for so long

 

[Andy_W]

Given who it is that made that comment I have a feeling he's just annoyed because people are engaging on my thread and not insulting me. It's his thing.

It's a good point though: Why come on to a thread to state we shouldn't be discussing things? It's really bizarre behaviour but it happens a lot on this board. I would look at a 13 page thread and, even if it wasn't on a subject I'm interested in, would assume people are engaged enough to keep the discussion going for so long

Haha, don't start him off, and you as well mind! We've been doing ok up to now

If I'm not interested in a thread I don't even open it, never mind read it, and even less likely to comment.

There's one thread with 18k posts, which I don't see much point in, but if people are happy posting on it, then leave them to it? People clearly like it, which is good for them

 

[Laughing]

St I have no interest in you or your opinions

 

[A]

Exchange of information is a good thing. Preaching and piety is not. This thread has both thankfully. I don't have anyone on ignore so I can read the balance. Some posts are informative, some are the product of a troubled individual with a tired agenda and misguided rhetoric

 

[JustTheGent]

No agenda from me, it’s just basic maths, and experience of running a fleet of vehicles, as part of my business. Personally I own twice as many ICE cars, as EV’s, not for long mind. I’ve owned about 20 ICE cars personally alone. As for the company, all our vans and HGV’s are staying as ICE as that makes the most sense now, we’ll be moving all cars to EV though, other than 4x4’s. Please explain my agenda?
What info/ examples are not accurate, feel free to debunk the Polo V ID3 posts above, you won’t though, as you can’t.

You’ve not owned an EV and are clearly biased against them, or you just like old, cheap cars, so why reply to posts looking at cars <3 year old, or on EV’s or even new cars in general?

Most people have a budget, either doing that monthly, yearly, or any timeframe. People have different budgets and different timeframes but the budget should include: Purchase price, sale price (estimate duration/ depreciation), finance, fuel price, insurance, VED, maintenance, tax benefits etc etc. The more detail, the better. You’re ignoring half the budget, and comparing different budgets or comparing different qualities of vehicle, making yourself look quite silly.

Everyone knows (or should know) garages make a lot of their money from finance, and can almost structure any deal to any monthly cost, to trick people, which is exactly why I keep mentioning TCO, and specific budgets/ 3 year costs or whatever. You keep comparing smaller budgets and older cars, with larger budgets and better/ newer cars, which are not like for like. You might like a 5-10 year old car, with old tech, that’s your choice. Most people would prefer a newer car, some can’t afford one, or have different priorities, which are all fair enough. You can’t dictate peoples budgets and priorities though, same as I can’t, but I can compare what people can get for each budget.

Your last paragraph was pure dog turd, the car market is moving on without you, as are the manufacturers.

As you quite freely state, your agenda is running lots of vehicles and going through your own personal vehicles like hot dinners. You're never satisfied, hence why you always want the latest thing. Maybe you can afford it, maybe you can't. But your psychology will always tell you that newer is better, it needs to - otherwise your purchases would cause a negative feeling rather than the buzz that you're looking for. It's plain to see that your mind is focused in a particular way. You've got a vested interest, even if you're not fully aware of it. You attempt to back up your mindset by implementing some creative accounting into thinking you are actually getting good value. Of course, value can be subjective, but my point is that your interpretation of value isn't suitable for most other people currently looking to buy a vehicle. I see it as my duty to clarify that.

In truth, reality is often very different from what you believe. Whilst there have been great advancements in motoring as time has gone on, many of the systems we now see in place aren't necessarily in place to benefit the customer/driver. This encompasses everything from engines and gearboxes to simple things like windscreen wipers. We've even seen in recent weeks that Tesla owners couldn't gain entry to their vehicle because a particular app wasn't working . But we've seen time and again that complexity always ends up causing serious issues with reliability. Newer does certainly not mean better, it's often the reverse.

 

[JustTheGent]

Given who it is that made that comment I have a feeling he's just annoyed because people are engaging on my thread and not insulting me. It's his thing.

It's important not to get confused. This isn't your thread. We who put forward the correct and accurate information are the custodians of this thread.

 

[Tom_Boro]

Given who it is that made that comment I have a feeling he's just annoyed because people are engaging on my thread and not insulting me. It's his thing.

It's a good point though: Why come on to a thread to state we shouldn't be discussing things? It's really bizarre behaviour but it happens a lot on this board. I would look at a 13 page thread and, even if it wasn't on a subject I'm interested in, would assume people are engaged enough to keep the discussion going for so long

You scream keyboard warrior smalltown, why would you attack Laughing from his post? You seem to always dig at him/her and it isn't okay. You need to grow up lad and go for a quiet drive in your EV and come back a nicer person.

 

[UTB 1953]

When you create a thread then respond to comment over 80 times you must have a very insecure life.

 

[Andy_W]

As you quite freely state, your agenda is running lots of vehicles and going through your own personal vehicles like hot dinners. You're never satisfied, hence why you always want the latest thing. Maybe you can afford it, maybe you can't. But your psychology will always tell you that newer is better, it needs to - otherwise your purchases would cause a negative feeling rather than the buzz that you're looking for. It's plain to see that your mind is focused in a particular way. You've got a vested interest, even if you're not fully aware of it. You attempt to back up your mindset by implementing some creative accounting into thinking you are actually getting good value. Of course, value can be subjective, but my point is that your interpretation of value isn't suitable for most other people currently looking to buy a vehicle. I see it as my duty to clarify that.

In truth, reality is often very different from what you believe. Whilst there have great advancements in motoring as time has gone on, many of the systems we now see in place aren't necessarily in place to benefit the customer/driver. This encompasses everything from engines and gearboxes to simple things like windscreen wipers. We've even seen in recent weeks that Tesla owners couldn't gain entry to their vehicle because a particular app wasn't working . But we've seen time and again that complexity always ends up causing serious issues with reliability. Newer does certainly not mean better, it's often the reverse.

Is that post a joke? I think you're on the wind up now.

You've no idea how long I keep my own vehicles, or works vehicles? So why assume, and build an agenda from it? Strange.

My budget changes (generally upward), and my requirements change, so my choices can change. The fact I can swap my main car after 18 months, with even a far less a hit than I was expecting just proves my calculations correct. My TCO was forecast to be twice as good as a comparable ICE car, and it ended up being even better than that. The car I'm moving to is in even more demand, and I expect that to be even more still when I come to sell it (compared to an equivalent ICE). Effectively I see it as not likely to depreciate as much, as a percentage as my current EV, and certainly a mile better than the ICE I was comparing to, or the ICE I could comparatively get now.

Newer isn't always better, but a 5/10 car from 1980 isn't going to be as good as a 5/10 car from 2000 or 2020. Car engines have got better, as have electric motors, TV's, computers etc, etc. You might have nostalgia for those, but I don't, I'd rather move with the times rather than be stuck in the past.

It's not creative accounting, it's just actual accounting. Maybe you tell your accountant, or boss that he shouldn't bother counting half of their expenditure this year? See how you get on.

Value is subjective, some people would assess what they can get for a particular amount, i.e they might compare two £50 pairs of shoes. You're comparing a £10 pair of shoes with a £50 pair and saying they're the same. They might be to you, to most others they're not. You didn't confirm if you bought £10 shoes, a £1 watch or eat 10p beans, why not? They're just the same as some £50 ones, a £500 watch, or Heinz, right?

Reality is different from you what you believe, and seemingly you have zero experience with.

You talk about advancements, like they are always for the worse, strange mindset. How old is your car, 10 years old? Did you not think that was better than the one made 20 years ago? Do you think you would have anything to buy if people just drove around in old cars?

Cars will always have faults, I've had loads preventing me from moving, from pretty much every manufacturer going, for practically every age of car.

 

[Andy_W]

When you create a thread then respond to comment over 80 times you must have a very insecure life.

Did you count those? If so, why?

People like to chat about what they like to chat about, each to their own, leave them to it?

If someone starts a thread, you would hopefully expect them to have a lot of input into it, wouldn't you? Or would you expect them to sit on the sidelines an not bother?

 

[UTB 1953]

Or to push their opinions till people get sick of listing to them