Italia 90: When Football Changed Forever

relfyoftheboro

relfyoftheboro

Well-known member
Anyone else watching this on Channel 4?

Two episodes in and it's not quite what I was expecting, but not in a bad way. A lot of focus on the issue's the sport had outside the game itself. Thus far the games at the tournament have taken up about 10 minutes screen time out of the 2, hour long episodes! I've found it informative with lots of direct insights to the troubles the game was going through at the time, what the government decided to do about it and how fans reacted as a result.

A lot of ground covered in the 80s, leading up to the tournament and there's still one episode to air, next Monday at 9.

Highly recommended.
 
Yes, more of a hooligan documentary than a world cup footy doc.
Interesting to hear from the undercover cops.
Sometimes easy to forget just how bad things got in the 80's. Current crowd issues are nothing in comparison (not that they shouldn't be dealt with).
 
TBH I am compelled to watch everything about Italia '90 and when I saw it was on I thought 'here we go again' but it is, as you say, not at all what I was expecting. Why do players from that era sound so articulate now when describing social situations? Is it because modern players aren't, or people get more articulate as they get older? I don't think anyone in 1990 thought Stuart Pearce was a particularly insightful guy, yet here he is describing the 80s like a professional historian.

Anyway, I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far, and also need to watch this "Italia '90: Four Weeks that Changed the World" series Sky have done too. And I do mean 'need', my brain just doesn't allow anything else.
 
atypical_boro said:
TBH I am compelled to watch everything about Italia 90 and when I saw it was on I thought 'here we go again' but it is, as you say, not at all what I was expecting. Why do players from that era sound so articulate now when describing social situations? Is it because modern players aren't, or people get more articulate as they get older? I don't think anyone in 1990 thought Stuart Pearce was a particularly insightful guy, yet here he is describing the 80s like a professional historian.

Anyway, I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far, and also need to watch this "Italia '90: Four Weeks that Changed the World" series Sky have done too. And I do mean 'need', my brain just doesn't allow anything else.
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No it’s because they were relatively normal
Lads back then not the media trained robots we see now they are taught how not to say too much much or just enough.

Back then they weren’t hence the more honest flow.
 
Jedi boro said:
No it’s because they were relatively normal
Lads back then not the media trained robots we see now they are taught how not to say too much much or just enough.

Back then they weren’t hence the more honest flow.
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But I genuinely think that back then people talked about those players in almost the same way as they talk about players now.
 
atypical_boro said:
But I genuinely think that back then people talked about those players in almost the same way as they talk about players now.
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Back then football fans were football fans it was almost unheard of to go to a game as a neutral etc. so opinions were more focussed the press slaughtered poor sir Bobby.
 
Jedi boro said:
Back then football fans were football fans it was almost unheard of to go to a game as a neutral etc. so opinions were more focussed the press slaughtered poor sir Bobby.
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TBF whilst the press obviously went mercilessly overboard with both Robson and Taylor, both (at the time) were hugely underperforming. Robson turned it around after he'd agreed to leave and left a lasting legacy, Taylor didn't.

Off on a tangent, but its easy to forget quite how daft some of the decisions Taylor made were. Admittedly he lost Gazza, Parker and Adams to injury, but here is a list of players Taylor left out of his Euro 92 squad:

Gary Pallister - PFA Player of the Year, chose Keith Curle instead
Chris Waddle - at the time a regular starter for one of the best sides in Europe, chose Tony Daley instead
Ian Wright - top goalscorer in England at the time
Steve McManaman - young player of the year runner-up (behind Ryan Giggs)
Lee Sharpe - one of hottest young prospects in England, chose Andy Sinton instead
Mark Hateley - seasoned continental striker who'd scored goals for a number of Europe's top clubs
Steve Bruce - had scored 19 goals for Man Utd the season before, as a defender
Paul Ince - chose Neil Webb and Carlton Palmer instead
David Seaman - chose Chris Woods instead
Teddy Sheringham - sold that summer for a huge £2.1m
Peter Beardsley - one of Liverpool/England's star forwards in late 80s/early 90s, great season at Everton in 91-92
Matt Le Tissier (before he was fat)

Taylor almost deserved the turnip treatment to be fair! Only time we've failed to qualify for the WC in the last 40+ years. Nice guy though.
 
atypical_boro said:
TBF whilst the press obviously went mercilessly overboard with both Robson and Taylor, both (at the time) were hugely underperforming. Robson turned it around after he'd agreed to leave and left a lasting legacy, Taylor didn't.

Off on a tangent, but its easy to forget quite how daft some of the decisions Taylor made were. Admittedly he lost Gazza, Parker and Adams to injury, but here is a list of players Taylor left out of his Euro 92 squad:

Gary Pallister - PFA Player of the Year, chose Keith Curle instead
Chris Waddle - at the time a regular starter for one of the best sides in Europe, chose Tony Daley instead
Ian Wright - top goalscorer in England at the time
Steve McManaman - young player of the year runner-up (behind Ryan Giggs)
Lee Sharpe - one of hottest young prospects in England, chose Andy Sinton instead
Mark Hateley - seasoned continental striker who'd scored goals for a number of Europe's top clubs
Steve Bruce - had scored 19 goals for Man Utd the season before, as a defender
Paul Ince - chose Neil Webb and Carlton Palmer instead
David Seaman - chose Chris Woods instead
Teddy Sheringham - sold that summer for a huge £2.1m
Peter Beardsley - one of Liverpool/England's star forwards in late 80s/early 90s, great season at Everton in 91-92
Matt Le Tissier (before he was fat)

Taylor almost deserved the turnip treatment to be fair! Only time we've failed to qualify for the WC in the last 40+ years. Nice guy though.
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That's a staggering list of quality players not taken. Wasn't aware of that.
 
atypical_boro said:
TBF whilst the press obviously went mercilessly overboard with both Robson and Taylor, both (at the time) were hugely underperforming. Robson turned it around after he'd agreed to leave and left a lasting legacy, Taylor didn't.

Off on a tangent, but its easy to forget quite how daft some of the decisions Taylor made were. Admittedly he lost Gazza, Parker and Adams to injury, but here is a list of players Taylor left out of his Euro 92 squad:

Gary Pallister - PFA Player of the Year, chose Keith Curle instead
Chris Waddle - at the time a regular starter for one of the best sides in Europe, chose Tony Daley instead
Ian Wright - top goalscorer in England at the time
Steve McManaman - young player of the year runner-up (behind Ryan Giggs)
Lee Sharpe - one of hottest young prospects in England, chose Andy Sinton instead
Mark Hateley - seasoned continental striker who'd scored goals for a number of Europe's top clubs
Steve Bruce - had scored 19 goals for Man Utd the season before, as a defender
Paul Ince - chose Neil Webb and Carlton Palmer instead
David Seaman - chose Chris Woods instead
Teddy Sheringham - sold that summer for a huge £2.1m
Peter Beardsley - one of Liverpool/England's star forwards in late 80s/early 90s, great season at Everton in 91-92
Matt Le Tissier (before he was fat)

Taylor almost deserved the turnip treatment to be fair! Only time we've failed to qualify for the WC in the last 40+ years. Nice guy though.
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Steve Bruce scored 19 league goals in a season as a defender????

How have I never heard that stat before?
 
JJHJHonthewing said:
What was it like jedi
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Sorry I mean we as in England I wasn’t there.

But it was openly known Italy shoved England there to Keep them off the mainland ( until we qualified) and filled it with carabinieri as we uniquely played all our games in one stadium.
 
Turns out It was actually the Tory govt that asked for it.

The England national team, at the British government's request, played all 3 of their group stage matches in Cagliari on the island of Sardinia.[16] Hooliganism, rife in English football in the 1980s had spilled over onto the European continent when 39 mostly Italian Juventus supporters were killed and 600 were injured at the 1985 European Cup Final in Brussels while trying to flee from an attack by Liverpool supporters. This hooliganism had followed the English national team while they played friendlies on the European continent – the distrust of English fans was high enough that the English Football Association's reputation and even diplomatic relations between the UK and Italy were seen to be at risk if England played any group stage matches on the Italian mainland. Thanks largely to British Sports Minister Colin Moynihan's negative remarks about English fans weeks before the match, security around Cagliari during England's three matches there was heavy – in addition to 7,000 local police, the Carabinieri and special forces of the Italian military were also there patrolling the premises. The Italian authorities' presence proved to be justified as there were several riots during the time England were playing their matches in Cagliari, leading to a number of injuries, arrests and even deportations.[17][18]
 
I’ve been watching the programme and I’m a bit disappointed I find that I can’t stop watching it.

There is too much glorification of London hooligans for my liking particularly West Ham and Chelsea but there are other aspects of the programme which are very interesting like the undercover police and the political aspects.
 
HolgateCorner said:
I’ve been watching the programme and I’m a bit disappointed I find that I can’t stop watching it.

There is too much glorification of London hooligans for my liking particularly West Ham and Chelsea but there are other aspects of the programme which are very interesting like the undercover police and the political aspects.
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Hmmm. I'm not sure they're being glorified intentionally, but how else can you tell the story of the undercover cops infiltrating them? The coppers use pretty unsavoury language to describe them too, not as if they are in awe of them.
 
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