Ken Loach expelled from the Labour Party

[BlindBoyGrunt]

The Labour party are becoming more unelectable every month.
The country do not want a socialist government. This has been proved over and over again when they go to the country with a socialist message, Foot , Kinnock and Corbyn. They do want change hence why Blairs slightly centre left message was so happily recieved.
Corbyn had huge support amongst activists and the young politically aware but it's not enough.
If the shambles of a government we currently have are still ahead in the polls after everything they have done then the socialist message will never garner enough support to govern .

That's a strange post. The Labour party are becoming more unelectable every month but they are moving further away from Corbyn every month and purging his supporters with enthusiasm. Perhaps it's the leader that is turning people off.

 

[Same_as_before]

What amazes me is that the recent past is forgotten.

Corbyn lost in labour heartlands, the industrial north and Midlands.

He lost to a right wing theif, after 10 years of austerity. He was whooped.


Now a few left wingers are given the heave and suddenly it's Starmers fault.

 

[HarryVegas]

What amazes me is that the recent past is forgotten.

Corbyn lost in labour heartlands, the industrial north and Midlands.

He lost to a right wing theif, after 10 years of austerity. He was whooped.


Now a few left wingers are given the heave and suddenly it's Starmers fault.

On the big picture I agree with you. I was no fan of Corbyn. But this purging is ugly and unjust.

 

[MolteniArcore]

What upsets me is all this infighting. Every time a thread runs like this one it's just more evidence that we'll be stuck with the Tories for years.

Some Labour 'supporters' need to hold their noses.

 

[Colin Warnek]

What upsets me is all this infighting. Every time a thread runs like this one it's just more evidence that we'll be stuck with the Tories for years.

Some Labour 'supporters' need to hold their noses.

True. Petty expulsions like this play into the Tories' hands, imho.

 

[bear66]

What amazes me is that the recent past is forgotten.

Corbyn lost in labour heartlands, the industrial north and Midlands.

He lost to a right wing theif, after 10 years of austerity. He was whooped.


Now a few left wingers are given the heave and suddenly it's Starmers fault.

600,000 Tory voters voted Labour in 2019. Did they have a Marxist epiphany?

2 million people voted for the first time in their lives for the Tories (not 18 year olds but older non-voters).

This was far more complicated than 'Labour/Corbyn'.

 

[Same_as_before]

No it isn't, we were given a good hiding. Where did you get 600,000 from? the Guardian?

So what older people voted Tory, are you suggesting they should not have a vote.

Some on here laugh at me for going in a workies, but I can tell you for the first time ever I could not convince ordinary people to vote Labour.

 

[bear66]

No it isn't, we were given a good hiding. Where did you get 600,000 from? the Guardian?

So what older people voted Tory, are you suggesting they should not have a vote.

Some on here laugh at me for going in a workies, but I can tell you for the first time ever I could not convince ordinary people to vote Labour.

It was a yougov analysis of voting after the election. Labour lost 11% of votes to the Tories but gained 5% of Tory votes to Labour.

My comment about first time voters was that the Tories have this landslide because of Brexit. The Labour loss to the Lib Dems was a bigger issue than the net loss to the Tories. These voted for Corbyn in 2017 but probably liked the overturning of Brexit lib dem message.

Brexit also hurt the Tories with the Brexit party as well. It was a complex election where domestic politics were squeezed out of the debate.

 

[Same_as_before]

It was the least complex of all time. 'we will get Brexit done' was brilliant.

We (labour) were all over the place.

As for polls, ask people if they want more spending on NHS, you will get a 99% yes. Then ask, your tax will go up 5%. Suddenly 60% against.

We should learn. Keep well away from Brexit, emphasise Johnson's dishonesty, 15 years of austerity, I would even stay well clear of Covid.

 

[bear66]

It was the least complex of all time. 'we will get Brexit done' was brilliant.

We (labour) were all over the place.

As for polls, ask people if they want more spending on NHS, you will get a 99% yes. Then ask, your tax will go up 5%. Suddenly 60% against.

We should learn. Keep well away from Brexit, emphasise Johnson's dishonesty, 15 years of austerity, I would even stay well clear of Covid.

67% of people favour increases in tax to fund the NHS. This figure is increasing.

Link

The polls on voting intentions after Johnson's dishonesty and sleaze suggest it's a dead end.

 

[Same_as_before]

The Guardian there is a shock, not a Red Top (spit)

Of course people will pay more for the NHS, who would say no to a Poll. Put 'we will increase tax by 5% on a manifesto' them stay out of power for another 5 years.

Good grief.

 

[bear66]

The Guardian there is a shock, not a Red Top (spit)

Of course people will pay more for the NHS, who would say no to a Poll. Put 'we will increase tax by 5% on a manifesto' them stay out of power for another 5 years.

Good grief.

33% said 'no'.

 

[Same_as_before]

What people say and do is completely different.

I am sick of losing.

 

[bear66]

What people say and do is completely different.

I am sick of losing.

The progressive vote in the UK is split between Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems. It'll be difficult for Labour to get two thirds of that vote.

Scottish nationalism is their best chance. England will eventually wake up and demand an opposition.

 

[Same_as_before]

In my opinion Scottish Nationalism will never happen. There is a very large Loyalist vote. The SNP have to win over I would guess 80% of the undecided. That's a rule if thumb figure.

Blair won over Murdoch if that's what it takes, keep him happy. Sometimes in politics you have to eat lemons.

But debating the extremes of the party and Brexit' will win nothing.

I voted for Corbyn, a lemon, but the alternative was strychnine.

 

[Colin Warnek]

The progressive vote in the UK is split between Labour, SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Lib Dems. It'll be difficult for Labour to get two thirds of that vote.

Scottish nationalism is their best chance. England will eventually wake up and demand an opposition.

Scottish nationalism isn't a good option for anyone,namely as it weakens the country immeasurably. The knock on effects will be disastrous. Like SAB though I don't think it'll happen.

 

[Lefty]

When Alf Garnett gave his racist monologues, most people understood the target of the joke was him, but not always the racists. When Al Murray does his Pub Landlord act, some little englanders don't realise they are the target and applaud what he is literally saying, while Alan B'stard had the unfortunate effect in some circles of being a literal hero rather than a satirical one. That is the problem with satire, some people don't appreciate it. Stupid people. But it is not a lack of intelligence that makes them stupid, it is that something overrides that intelligence. They are driven by something that overrides that intelligence. Ideology, belief, faith, they all come from the same place. Even if the position was a carefully reasoned and thought out one in the first place, it can become a religion. Literally and figuratively.

Similarly, there are people on this thread and previous threads like this who clearly don't realise they are defending the competence of the People's Front of Judea. Furthermore, incredibly they think what should be their the main objective is served by having a PFJ, a Judean Popular People's Front, a Judean Peoples Front and a Campaign To Free Galillee*.

The rest of the country see it, but the 'Project' backers are incapable of realising they didn't kidnap Pilate's wife because they fought themselves while the Roman guards looked on.

* How apt, given the underlying reluctance to confront, condemn and act on the antisemitism was probably mostly due to the Palestine question

 

[American_Mary]

When the narrative of a party is driven by your opposition you cannot but help march the beat they dictate, when you work within from, either side, to disunite and destabilise a party you're a member of then your primary aim is not electoral success but proving a point that matters little, the current shambles that my Party has become is upsetting, distressing, frustrating and leaves me utterly bereft of what the future holds for my country, the Corbyn debacle has been replaced by a disaster of a different type, I supported Starmer in the hope he was a man capable of achieving unity, appearing capable, sensible and competent in the face of the cult of Johnson's Brexit and his litany of missteps and faux pas, unfortunately he hasn't moved Labour any closer to being electable than his predecessor, he appears to have thrown the baby out with the bath water and lost the essence of what the Labour Party should mean, hounding the wrong targets, focusing on niche things and allowing the worst Prime Minister in history's primary opposition to come from those from Johnson's own party.

It saddens me to see posters I respect at each others throats and disagreeing instead of being able to find a common ground and unite, it depresses me to think how bad it will get before things get better and it concerns me that I have no answer or solution to the current katzenjammer as there doesn't appear to be anyone capable, willing or brave enough to stop the implosion and create an electable force, Labour MP's fiddling while Rome burns and arguing over who is responsible for the fire without the sense of trying to put it out first.

I've never felt so politically homeless and so despairing that me and my like have no identity within the framework of any party or any obvious answer to remedy this malady. My Labour Party was a broad church of tolerance, of respect, of inclusion, of acceptance and recognising the positives of difference and using them to campaign for changes that benefit all, not some exclusive homogeneous entity that stands for everything and nothing, it was a righter of wrongs, an embracer of progressiveness, a supporter and aid of the underdog.

30 plus years a member and I no longer recognise the Party or my role, if any, within it. Maybe I've changed and am an outlier but I think my views are the same, with the edges rounded off, as they were as an 18 year old who saw first hand the yoke of Thatcherism and her own version of the Harrying of the North, and it's especially sad because if we ever needed a Party of liberal understanding and a recognition of the importance of society it is now.

 

[NYboro]

Great summation @American_Mary. Talking to my brother, he's wondering why he pays his dues and it hardly inspires me to join now that I'm back in the UK.

 

[HarryVegas]

When the narrative of a party is driven by your opposition you cannot but help march the beat they dictate, when you work within from, either side, to disunite and destabilise a party you're a member of then your primary aim is not electoral success but proving a point that matters little, the current shambles that my Party has become is upsetting, distressing, frustrating and leaves me utterly bereft of what the future holds for my country, the Corbyn debacle has been replaced by a disaster of a different type, I supported Starmer in the hope he was a man capable of achieving unity, appearing capable, sensible and competent in the face of the cult of Johnson's Brexit and his litany of missteps and faux pas, unfortunately he hasn't moved Labour any closer to being electable than his predecessor, he appears to have thrown the baby out with the bath water and lost the essence of what the Labour Party should mean, hounding the wrong targets, focusing on niche things and allowing the worst Prime Minister in history's primary opposition to come from those from Johnson's own party.

It saddens me to see posters I respect at each others throats and disagreeing instead of being able to find a common ground and unite, it depresses me to think how bad it will get before things get better and it concerns me that I have no answer or solution to the current katzenjammer as there doesn't appear to be anyone capable, willing or brave enough to stop the implosion and create an electable force, Labour MP's fiddling while Rome burns and arguing over who is responsible for the fire without the sense of trying to put it out first.

I've never felt so politically homeless and so despairing that me and my like have no identity within the framework of any party or any obvious answer to remedy this malady. My Labour Party was a broad church of tolerance, of respect, of inclusion, of acceptance and recognising the positives of difference and using them to campaign for changes that benefit all, not some exclusive homogeneous entity that stands for everything and nothing, it was a righter of wrongs, an embracer of progressiveness, a supporter and aid of the underdog.

30 plus years a member and I no longer recognise the Party or my role, if any, within it. Maybe I've changed and am an outlier but I think my views are the same, with the edges rounded off, as they were as an 18 year old who saw first hand the yoke of Thatcherism and her own version of the Harrying of the North, and it's especially sad because if we ever needed a Party of liberal understanding and a recognition of the importance of society it is now.

Best post I've seen on here in many a long day and an accurate summation of where I stand too.