Life after Wilder.

J

jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
To be clear, I’m a huge fan of Wilder as a coach and think he’s a perfect fit for us. Can see the green shoots of what he’s doing here and I think he’s the best manager outside the Premier League at the minute, his record backs it up.

But… on one hand, 5 wins in 19 is nowhere near. If we don’t get close to promotion this season I can’t see us or him hanging around.

On the other hand, I get twitchy every time a PL manager loses their job, because you can see why Wilder would be a great choice for Bournemouth, Everton, Southampton, whoever else will change manager in the near future.

If Wilder goes, whether that’s because he’s taken the Burnley job of his dreams 😁 or if Gibbo loses patience with our form - which could happen, if it continues for another month - will he be uniquely hard to replace given the squad atm?

Getting Wilder seems like a real medium term project. Because his system is so specific, it’s like the requirements for players are unusually specific - never in my days following Boro have we been so desperate for a left footed centre back who is good on the ball and can drop into midfield, but can also defend in a 3.

He’s been here for a year and we still haven’t got near building a team that works with his system, though we can all see what we need.

If he does leave this season or next, will he be harder to replace than the average manager? Because the players have all been signed to fit the Wilder template? What would a Warnock do with a team of wing backs and ball playing centre halfs? Are we committed to playing 3-5-2 for the next ten years?

And, does all that make him less tempted to take a Premier League job, because he has to build a very specific squad from scratch to be able to do his thing?
 
I think it is the opposite actually. It is hard to bring Wilder in and expect him to get players that aren't comfortable playing his formation/style but it should be fairly easy for anyone else to take over a Wilder team and have them playing however you want because we have a team of footballers. You can have ball playing centre backs hoofing the ball if you want, you can have strikers pressing or not. Midfielders aren't particularly unique in Wilder's system. It's far harder to go from Warnock style football to Wilder style than the other way around. The only issue I could see another manager having is if they wanted to play 3 up front with 2 wide forwards because we don't have anyone that plays there but you are always going to have some things missing from a squad that a new manager wants whoever they are.
 
I also like Wilder, but my main problem is the tactical inflexibility. It's like the polar opposite of Total Football.

Hope we aren't having to replace him soon, but to be honest I think the player's we've got are probably a load more versatile than he is. Bring in the right replacement and it'll be fine.
 
Nosmo-King said:
The biggest issue I have with Wilder is he doesn’t appear to recognise and deal with the deficiencies we continue to have.

Whilst having a belief in principles is admirable if they don’t work changes are necessary. I don’t think this sits comfortably with Wilder
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He DOES recognise the deficiencies though.

We needed a new goalkeeper. Probably two. He signed two. We needed a proper left wing back. He signed him. He needed central defenders, leaders at the back. He’s signed two in Lenihan and Clarke. We needed a presence up front. He’s added Muniz.

There is more work to do, more areas to add to and address, both on the training field and in the transfer market, but to suggest he doesn’t recognise the shortcomings in the team/squad is just complete nonsense.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He DOES recognise the deficiencies though.

We needed a new goalkeeper. Probably two. He signed two. We needed a proper left wing back. He signed him. He needed central defenders, leaders at the back. He’s signed two in Lenihan and Clarke. We needed a presence up front. He’s added Muniz.

There is more work to do, more areas to add to and address, both on the training field and in the transfer market, but to suggest he doesn’t recognise the shortcomings in the team/squad is just complete nonsense.
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How many goals have we conceded? So that is an area of improvement? Now that is a nonsense
 
Keiron Scott's job is to identify successors, I'm sure the list is already developed. As with any appointment, vital that we keep the thread of style and approach running through the club (we've failed dramatically at this in the past).

Wilder has been successful everywhere he has been and I for one don't think that will change here. That said, this might be his leanest spell results wise as a manager? I do think he will change the system if results don't improve (4-2-3-1 would be my guess).

Of course none of us know what the expectations are for this season. An improvement on last season would see us finish in the play offs. Whilst we go into every match for 3 points I don't think anyone (Wilder included) expected a top 2 finish this season?

It could be that this is a transitory season, we've probably only got half the work done with the squad which needs doing?
 
Nosmo-King said:
The biggest issue I have with Wilder is he doesn’t appear to recognise and deal with the deficiencies we continue to have.

Whilst having a belief in principles is admirable if they don’t work changes are necessary. I don’t think this sits comfortably with Wilder
Click to expand...
Coach of already good players or a builder of a specific system isn’t it. Pep or Ancelotti.

To be fair, his system works. Who else plays it, Conte? And look at what they’re doing to the Premier League this season.

I don’t think a Harry Redknapp could take over this squad and just motivate them to success. Big rebuild, still in progress, hope we get to see it through.
 
Nosmo-King said:
How many goals have we conceded? So that is an area of improvement? Now that is a nonsense
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You said he doesn’t recognise the deficiencies. I’ve just shown you why that’s complete nonsense.

We’ve conceded too many goals. He will be working with his coaches to put that right. We desperately need a proper central midfielder. Dijksteel has switched off twice now, both in injury time, and cost us three points by not tracking his man. He was dropped after doing it at Stoke. The only reason he was on last night is because of injuries. Again, proof that the manager sees and understands the deficiencies in the team, squad, performances.

The manager is no mug. He is actively addressing issues. Look at the business he’s done this summer. He knows full well where the issues lie. He’ll put it right. It might take more transfer windows, a season, who knows.

He’ll need more time for sure. I’m completely comfortable with that. If you’re not then that’s your lookout.
 
We’ve conceded more goals than any other team except one. Your argument is flawed by the facts. Something you appear to steadfastly refuse to recognise.

The keeper situation is the only improvement made - and that largely down to the fact we had 2 clowns as first and second choice keepers.

I like Wilder strangely enough. But like it or not football is a results based industry. His record at the backend of last season and now this do not provide a strong argument in his favour.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He DOES recognise the deficiencies though.

We needed a new goalkeeper. Probably two. He signed two. We needed a proper left wing back. He signed him. He needed central defenders, leaders at the back. He’s signed two in Lenihan and Clarke. We needed a presence up front. He’s added Muniz.

There is more work to do, more areas to add to and address, both on the training field and in the transfer market, but to suggest he doesn’t recognise the shortcomings in the team/squad is just complete nonsense.
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Absolutely agree. Starting the season six important players short hasn’t helped us one bit, and he’s filling the clear problems from last season.

My worry is: we’ve brought in players we know are good players, and they still haven’t settled into the Wilder system.

It takes time, but you don’t have time when you play Sat-Tue-Sat. Edit: and you’ve got six points from seven games.
 
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Nosmo-King said:
We’ve conceded more goals than any other team except one. Your argument is flawed by the facts. Something you appear to steadfastly refuse to recognise.

The keeper situation is the only improvement made - and that largely down to the fact we had 2 clowns as first and second choice keepers.

I like Wilder strangely enough. But like it or not football is a results based industry. His record at the backend of last season and now this do not provide a strong argument in his favour.
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Steadfastly refuse to recognise. Apart from where I said “we concede too many goals,” you’re bang on.

The only improvement made is the ‘keepers? Sorry but you’re talking absolute pap.

Results over 20 games might not be in his favour at the moment, but results over 20 years certainly are. I’m not prepared to write off a manager with his track record after less than a year in charge, with one summer window behind him. It’s just nonsense.

Get a grip of yourself man.
 
So what good is 20 years results to us? Absolutely none. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the past - it’s the present and future. To date the results are far from impressive.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
You said he doesn’t recognise the deficiencies. I’ve just shown you why that’s complete nonsense.

We’ve conceded too many goals. He will be working with his coaches to put that right. We desperately need a proper central midfielder. Dijksteel has switched off twice now, both in injury time, and cost us three points by not tracking his man. He was dropped after doing it at Stoke. The only reason he was on last night is because of injuries. Again, proof that the manager sees and understands the deficiencies in the team, squad, performances.

The manager is no mug. He is actively addressing issues. Look at the business he’s done this summer. He knows full well where the issues lie. He’ll put it right. It might take more transfer windows, a season, who knows.

He’ll need more time for sure. I’m completely comfortable with that. If you’re not then that’s your lookout.
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Wilder did see the deficiencies last season, but the recruitment has not addressed anything other than a LWB in Giles and one encouraging striker in Muniz.
The defence seems so strong it is leaking goals all over. Last night was not Dijksteel's or Fry's fault, they did well when they came on. McNair missed the tackles AGAIN.
Whether they are Wilder's choices or not, the signings are not encouraging so far.
Results are results and ours see us at the bottom.
 
Nosmo-King said:
So what good is 20 years results to us? Absolutely none. Couldn’t give a monkeys about the past - it’s the present and future. To date the results are far from impressive.
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Couldn’t give a monkey’s about the past but happy to include last season’s results. Well, some of them. Not the ones we won, obvs.

My point is that he has a proven track record stretching back 20 years. He’s a good manager. Buckle up and enjoy the ride. Show some patience.
 
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