Life after Wilder.

jonny_greenings_sock said:
To be clear, I’m a huge fan of Wilder as a coach and think he’s a perfect fit for us. Can see the green shoots of what he’s doing here and I think he’s the best manager outside the Premier League at the minute, his record backs it up.

But… on one hand, 5 wins in 19 is nowhere near. If we don’t get close to promotion this season I can’t see us or him hanging around.

On the other hand, I get twitchy every time a PL manager loses their job, because you can see why Wilder would be a great choice for Bournemouth, Everton, Southampton, whoever else will change manager in the near future.

If Wilder goes, whether that’s because he’s taken the Burnley job of his dreams 😁 or if Gibbo loses patience with our form - which could happen, if it continues for another month - will he be uniquely hard to replace given the squad atm?

Getting Wilder seems like a real medium term project. Because his system is so specific, it’s like the requirements for players are unusually specific - never in my days following Boro have we been so desperate for a left footed centre back who is good on the ball and can drop into midfield, but can also defend in a 3.

He’s been here for a year and we still haven’t got near building a team that works with his system, though we can all see what we need.

If he does leave this season or next, will he be harder to replace than the average manager? Because the players have all been signed to fit the Wilder template? What would a Warnock do with a team of wing backs and ball playing centre halfs? Are we committed to playing 3-5-2 for the next ten years?

And, does all that make him less tempted to take a Premier League job, because he has to build a very specific squad from scratch to be able to do his thing?
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I would like to think that players Wilder signs for his very specific system, e.g. as you said - a left footed centre back who is good on the ball and can drop into midfield, but can also defend in a 3 - are by definition very flexible and should easily be able to adapt and play in any system.
I don't think Jones, for example, would
worry if a new manager wanted to play him as an out and out Winger.
 
I think we could quite easily replace him, after all, we haven’t made any noticeable improvement yet have we? He took over a lower half championship side with aspirations of the playoffs, and we’re currently a lower half championship side with aspirations of the playoffs. Although we do play some neat triangles every now and then.
 
As always happens in adversity, there are splits with people needing to blame somebody.
It's not all one person's fault.
Recruitment has been disappointing (Scott, Bausor, Gibson)
Wilder has made some very odd decisions with team and with substitutions.
Few of the players so far have covered themselves in glory (exc Giles, Muniz).

It has been a really poor summer so far and start to the season, after a fizzling out of the last.

I felt really optimistic about our future last May as I thought we would sell a couple for huge profit and reinvest in the quality to get us competing; especiaslly given the wage bill had been addressed, revenue was growing and we are in very good FFP shape.
I hoped Scott would source the frees, the loans and the quality buys to make us top two.
I thought the club sounded really aligned from top to fans and we were all pulling together.

There is a lot of work to do to stop the fans becoming a little restless. That is the last thing the club needs.
 
Loyalty doesn't exist in football anymore. It's all about what you can grab (players and managers).
If any manager leaves a club in a better state than what he inherited, you can't complain.

I think we are a better team and club since CW joined and I think we will go from strength to strength if he stays.
 
Nosmo-King said:
How many goals have we conceded? So that is an area of improvement? Now that is a nonsense
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The point is he recognised there was an issue and has tried to address it. Whether or not it works out is a different matter, it's probably too early to tell tbh, although I can see your point.

All transfers are a risk, I don't recall too many people saying it was a bad move when Chelsea signed Torres (or Crespo, or Shevshenko, or Kezman...) - sometimes it just doesn't work
 
Ian Bairds Ears said:
What a terrible post.....very poor..... are you even a boro fan...??
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Season ticket ten years mate and went home and away, sadly live away now but I’ll sell you a limited edition away kit or a UEFA Cup scarf if you need one, I’ve got them all. You?

Just a football discussion but don’t doubt the credentials mate, we’re all on a Boro messageboard for a reason.
 
I think you could probably put together something like a 4-2-3-1 like Karanka's system straight away if that was a new managers favourite system.

GK

Bola
Clarke
Fry
Dijksteel

McNair
Howson

Jones
McGree
Giles

Muniz

I don't think that formation is ideal for that group of players but I think a Karanka type manager could drill that team to be pretty solid and still have a bit of quality going forward.

Obviously something like that would be a short term thing and you'd probably need to sign a couple of players if you were changing a system. But, I think we have enough decent players here to player different formations.
 
I think it's fair to ask. We've lurched from system to system over the past few years and Wilderball is quite a leap from any of the others we've recently played, what with the emphasis on mobile centre backs. So it's fair to assume that the next manager, whether that's next week, Christmas, or five years time after our second consecutive European Champions League trophy, will not want to play like that. As Uwe pointed out above, you can make do and mend, but every switch of emphasis means changes in recruitment and style. The trouble with Wilder is that I don't think it'll be a club decision to fire him, I think he'll sod off when a better offer comes in, meaning that any long term planning on his behest likely gets blown out of the water. And we'll be left with the detritus.

Again.
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
Season ticket ten years mate and went home and away, sadly live away now but I’ll sell you a limited edition away kit or a UEFA Cup scarf if you need one, I’ve got them all. You?

Just a football discussion but don’t doubt the credentials mate, we’re all on a Boro messageboard for a reason.
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OK mate fair enough...I don't doubt your credentials.....mine are similar....
So next question...why on earth would a boro fan raise the topic life after wilder when we are at the start of a new era for the club...faltering at the moment...ill grant you ...but surely that's unhealthy for the club
 
Ian Bairds Ears said:
OK mate fair enough...I don't doubt your credentials.....mine are similar....
So next question...why on earth would a boro fan raise the topic life after wilder when we are at the start of a new era for the club...faltering at the moment...ill grant you ...but surely that's unhealthy for the club
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I'd guess its because he lives in the real world where managers come and go, its a reasonable question to ask and a realistic situation that clubs need to plan for.
 
indeedido said:
As always happens in adversity, there are splits with people needing to blame somebody.
It's not all one person's fault.
Recruitment has been disappointing (Scott, Bausor, Gibson)
Wilder has made some very odd decisions with team and with substitutions.
Few of the players so far have covered themselves in glory (exc Giles, Muniz).

It has been a really poor summer so far and start to the season, after a fizzling out of the last.

I felt really optimistic about our future last May as I thought we would sell a couple for huge profit and reinvest in the quality to get us competing; especiaslly given the wage bill had been addressed, revenue was growing and we are in very good FFP shape.
I hoped Scott would source the frees, the loans and the quality buys to make us top two.
I thought the club sounded really aligned from top to fans and we were all pulling together.

There is a lot of work to do to stop the fans becoming a little restless. That is the last thing the club needs.
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You ignoring the signing of Clarke, Lenihan, Steffen, Roberts? All good signings
 
Diego said:
You ignoring the signing of Clarke, Lenihan, Steffen, Roberts? All good signings
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Not ignoring Clarke, just not seen enough of him yet. Good on saturday, not so much last night.
Roberts has looked fine as a second choice keeper.

I think Lenihan is awful - an absolute flapper and disrupted our defence.
I'm not convinced yet by Steffen either, but again that might be early days.

I said other than Giles and Muniz nobody had covered themselves with glory.
I think that is spot on.
 
I just don't get the feeling Wilder is here for the long term, as I'd initially hoped. Maybe some of it stems from the Burnley thing or his digs about recruitment and stuff, I just don't get the feeling that all is rosie. I hope it is mind as we need some stability, I just have this niggling thing about him that I can't put me finger on.
 
For the poster who mentioned Giles and Muniz. Giles a great acquisition going forward - however defending is suspect. Likely to be our most creative player.

Muniz? One game not enough but looks very promising on last night’s performance. The other signings? Got it all to prove IMO
 
Nosmo-King said:
Giles a great acquisition going forward - however defending is suspect.
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To me Giles looks like he knows his limitations as a defender and just concentrates on making sure he's in the way and not over committing. If that buys time for defence/midfield to get in position to support him, it's better than getting skinned over and over again.
 
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