Million People March - Hyde Park yesterday

smogontherhine said:
You're missing the point, by hating racism you're losing your objectivity to identify it... everything can appear racist when you're consumed by hate for it.
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Nope, I haven't. That makes no sense. I hate tomato sauce, do I lose my objectivity to identify it?! no that's ludicrous. Same with racism, where exactly have I said anything ever that misinterprets something as racism, that is not?! I don't think that Adele wearing a Jamaica bikini top is racism, I don't think that a white girl wearing cornrows is racism.
 
smogontherhine said:
QED.
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sorry that's lame mate. I simply don't buy any excuse for shooting the guy in the back and seven times. He wasn't being violent or aggressive, he wasn't a danger to the police or anyone else. They had his license plate and could arrest later if necessary. There was zero justification for their actions. Even if he had beaten a guy up, there was still zero justification.
 
smogontherhine said:
You might not be old enough, or have been in the right place, to remember the over-privileged @rseholes that used to sell Socialist Worker outside of student unions in the 80's and support causes like the miners without ever having met one.
Same @rseholes, different era.
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“Might not be old enough”..........I love you.😘
 
smogontherhine said:
So your feelings for tomato sauce are the same as your feelings for racism.
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I think you know what I'm saying, hatred for something doesn't de facto mean you can't recognise it. Point to a single comment where I have misconstrued something as racism that is not........
 
smogontherhine said:
You might not be old enough, or have been in the right place, to remember the over-privileged @rseholes that used to sell Socialist Worker outside of student unions in the 80's and support causes like the miners without ever having met one.
Same @rseholes, different era.
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Thats b0ll0cks. Knew quite a few people who sold S.W. Some were unemployed others just working class people who thought things mattered.
 
BoroMart said:
I think you know what I'm saying, hatred for something doesn't de facto mean you can't recognise it. Point to a single comment where I have misconstrued something as racism that is not........
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I don't know whether you have and I have no desire to trawl through all your posts just so I can say "THERE !".

Hate is not helping and it does remove objectivity.

I'm sure your heart is in the right place, I just don't like seeing well-meaning people being manipulated and there is an awful lot of that going on from both sides.
 
Everything is an illusion, truths and lies coexist through the prism of politics and media reportage, good causes are hijacked and good people corrupted as they fight to adapt. We are surrendered by notions of change but in reality it mostly stays the same, we are all to some extent or other played and swayed by politicians, media and the new kid on the block of social media, they’re all mechanisms to bring about control through division.
 
smogontherhine said:
I don't know whether you have and I have no desire to trawl through all your posts just so I can say "THERE !".

Hate is not helping and it does remove objectivity.

I'm sure your heart is in the right place, I just don't like seeing well-meaning people being manipulated and there is an awful lot of that going on from both sides.
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I'm not being manipulated, I'm perfectly in control of my own thoughts. It would be pointless going back through my posts because you wouldn't be able to say "THERE", you would be able to say "YUP, you are right".

This false equivalence of detesting hateful attitudes, being as bad as hateful attitudes is ludicrous. Like I said, I'm not gonna go hug a racist and tell them their views are as valid as mine.
 
BoroMart said:
I'm not being manipulated, I'm perfectly in control of my own thoughts. It would be pointless going back through my posts because you wouldn't be able to say "THERE", you would be able to say "YUP, you are right".

This false equivalence of detesting hateful attitudes, being as bad as hateful attitudes is ludicrous. Like I said, I'm not gonna go hug a racist and tell them their views are as valid as mine.
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You don't need to hug one, I'm quite prepared to listen to them, to not hate them, to engage them in debate, to try to determine their motives... if they are ignorant @rseholes then fair enough, but you can only understand by listening.
 
smogontherhine said:
You don't need to hug one, I'm quite prepared to listen to them, to not hate them, to engage them in debate, to try to determine their motives... if they are ignorant @rseholes then fair enough, but you can only understand by listening.
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That's fair enough, except the example I gave of racists, there is no justification for that, their motives whatever they are are not validated by any other words. Racism is ignorance by definition.

Now that doesn't mean every element of that persons psyche is evil, but that's a serious break in their personality, empathy and perception of the world, which for me is only forgivable when they address it and reject it fully. Will I engage and ask why someone holds those views, yes, I will hold them to account for it, belittle it, tear apart any ridiculous logic they have formed in their ignorance. But ultimately it's up to them to recognise their stupidity. I can objectively recognise that, hate their ideology and hate the most vocal destructive types for which there will never be any turning back
 
We're not far apart, I just see far too much of the shouting "Racist" at every opportunity, the "if you don't admit you're racist then you're a racist" kafkatrap argument (there's been plenty of that on this forum). It's counter-productive. It's creating divisions where there are none.

We shouldn't see racism like a disease that needs to be wiped out 100%. We should see it like something we need to control but accept that we'll never eradicate it. Some people will never change. Lumping everyone else in with the irredeemable will never work.
 
smogontherhine said:
You might not be old enough, or have been in the right place, to remember the over-privileged @rseholes that used to sell Socialist Worker outside of student unions in the 80's and support causes like the miners without ever having met one.
Same @rseholes, different era.
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Why would supporting the miners without having met one make someone an *rsehole? I don't really get that.

Surely the miners have been completely vindicated since. Thatcher did close the means, the miners did lose their jobs, the BBC have admitted to falsifying their reports on the pickets to vilify the miners...
 
smogontherhine said:
We're not far apart, I just see far too much of the shouting "Racist" at every opportunity, the "if you don't admit you're racist then you're a racist" kafkatrap argument (there's been plenty of that on this forum). It's counter-productive. It's creating divisions where there are none.

We shouldn't see racism like a disease that needs to be wiped out 100%. We should see it like something we need to control but accept that we'll never eradicate it. Some people will never change. Lumping everyone else in with the irredeemable will never work.
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The racist should be confronted at all times, at least on here they always have been.
 
I like listening to this guy speak, I'd recommend it as an educational 20 minutes or so at the beginning of the 2 hours.

 
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