Off to see Neil Warnock tonight
- Thread starter Erimus74
- Start date
Nobby_Barnes
Well-known member
Last edited:
TeaCider
Well-known member
Well, if you can hear Leo speaking glowingly about how nice a person Warnock is, and think that he personally thought he'd been treated "s***y, unnecessary and nasty", fair enough.
I think people took a genuine comment as mocking when it wasn't intended that way.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Considering the wage cuts under Warnock's reign (Gestede, Ayala, Clayton, Friend, Shotton, Johnson. Assombalonga, Fletcher - £9.5m? off the wage bill) and improving our league position - I don't understand how posters could say he didn't do a good job - we could all argue about how good. If 5 is average I would give him close to 6.5 out of 10.
BTW I would give Wilder about the same.
BTW I would give Wilder about the same.
r00fie1
Well-known member
asredastheycome
Well-known member
One thing I read in the above is it was always somebody else's fault.
newyddion
Well-known member
It is what is.No.You`re wrong there
Interesting to see where we would have went after we got promote… manager wise.
newyddion
Well-known member
Nah, he said he’s made mistakes at every club he’s been too.
r00fie1
Well-known member
I knew a lad who used to say that about his best mate
Erimus74
Well-known member
Yea Mogga was hammered on here too when results starting going downhill, think one of the posters has long since left the board, just the way it usNo.You`re wrong there
As I said at the time Warnock was dismissed, sadly it wasnt working, but for me, I'll always look at him as a good manager here & thats all that matters in my book
r00fie1
Well-known member
A wa jokin chap
Worse thing about Tony was that terrible display by "fans" at Barnsley. As he trudged towards the corner I felt embarrassed for the lad. It was only after he`d gone, people realised just what he`d done for the club - we took at least three of his players into the Prem [one was Captain] under Aitor!
For me, a give Warnock a chance, but fell out with him when he started calling out the lads in public an picking his favourites. He should have gone at the end of the season.
asredastheycome
Well-known member
Was at that game. Could have cried for Mowbray.A wa jokin chap
Worse thing about Tony was that terrible display by "fans" at Barnsley. As he trudged towards the corner I felt embarrassed for the lad. It was only after he`d gone, people realised just what he`d done for the club - we took at least three of his players into the Prem [one was Captain] under Aitor!
For me, a give Warnock a chance, but fell out with him when he started calling out the lads in public an picking his favourites. He should have gone at the end of the season.
Rofesleg
Well-known member
Here's a simple comparison for you:
Karanka
123 Championship games
1.8 Points per Game
Warnock
71 Championship games
1.4 Points per Game
newyddion
Well-known member
Warnock would have gotten there..
Karanka never had the players missing that Warnock had.
Nobby_Barnes
Well-known member
r00fie1
Well-known member
Anthony Vickers: Barnsley booing tipped the scales against Mogga
Fans' reaction to Boro's collapse at the rock-bottom side last October forced Steve Gibson to wield the axe on club icon Tony Mowbray
www.gazettelive.co.uk
[Edited]
Anthony Vickers: Boro fans booing at Barnsley irrevocably tipped the scales against Tony Mowbray
Fans' reaction to Boro's collapse at the rock-bottom side last October forced Steve Gibson to wield the axe on club icon Tony Mowbray
Almost a year ago Boro parted company with one of the club's favourite sons.
Tony Mowbray was axed as the club's manager on October 21 after a poor start to the 2013/14 season.
After the booing at Barnsley there was no way back for Mogga .Boro squandered early chances then imploded as the rock bottom Tykes carved unchallenged through a fragile, disjointed defence and danced to a barely believable 3-0 half-time lead. It was chaos. It was shambolic. It was embarrassing. And it was too much for the 2,000 strong travelling Boro crowd. At Oakwell, the dam broke.
It was the tipping point. For the first time a long simmering opposition became vocal and vitriolic and turned its fire directly on the former Ayresome hero. A year of frustration burst out. “You’re Getting Sacked In The Morning” broke spontaneously from amid the generalised booing. It wasn’t universal but it wasn’t a tiny faction either. It was widespread. It was loud. It was obvious. It was a reluctant but unequivocal demand. It was quickly followed by a brave, loyal “One Tony Mowbray” but that response was short-lived and half-hearted. There was an air of inevitability.
Asked later about the booing, Steve Gibson said “Hear it? I started it.” Tongue-in-cheek maybe, but only three months earlier Gibson had sanctioned hefty spending by his manager. The spoke volumes about exactly how far and how quickly the political climate had changed. With what was supposed to be a the breakthrough season dead in the water, the situation had taken a sickening lurch against the boss. The tunnel at Oakwell is in the corner next to the away end and a sizeable group of several hundred Boro fans had run down to angrily point and jeer as a dispirited team skulked off at the break.
Mogga lingered gloomily on the pitch before trudging off through a gauntlet of hate, a lonely and broken looking man. The sad scene had an heavy air of finality about it - and it was played out in front of a stony-faced Steve Gibson. The chairman watched from the directors box along with Neil Bausor, Keith Lamb and advisor without portfolio Peter Kenyon, the entire politburo looking tetchy at the troubling figures from the five year plan and ready to make some ruthless strategic policy decisions.
Albert Adomah scored twice after the break and Muzzy Carayol clipped the bar in a spirited revival. But it was too little, too late. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Barnsley wasn’t the first sudden slump by brittle Boro that term. A similar early collapse saw Boro two down after 10 minutes at home to Bournemouth before clawing in front - only to again wobble to draw 3-3. They let slip two goal leads at Forest and Wigan and suffered a dismal no-show at Ipswich. Mogga had spent well over £2m in the summer. He had brought in £1m man Albert Adomah, Dean Whitehead and Jozsef Varga pre-season then spent another £1.5m on deadline to recruit Kei Kamara and Jacob Butterfield as Boro became one of the division’s biggest investors. A couple of others got away too - notably Ross McCormack - while a string of proposed loan deals for European players (and Kenneth Omeruo) weren’t followed up... but for the first time it was unquestionably Tony Mowbray’s team. And with that recruitment went any mitigation. The toxic bump in the wage bill was gone, the awkward squad on the naughty step were gone.
No more excuses: it was time to deliver. Mogga had worked wonders with an unbalanced and demoralised inherited squad when he first arrived and did well to patch the team up with one hand tied behind his back as he went along. But liberated, with money, with his own men, Mogga failed. By the end results had made it very easy for anyone – in the crowd or in the boardroom – to construct a compelling argument against him. By the end everything that his arrival had promised went sour. The unity he had fostered on his arrival fractured with factions developing in the crowd and bitter squabbling spilling onto phone-in airwaves and into cyberspace. The sense of pride in having a Teesside accent from boardroom to boot-room dissipated too. It seemed parochial romantic nonsense when Boro were losing their way. And the much vaunted expansive football utopia of expansive, attacking football on solid foundations spluttered and died. Like most fans, Gibson had agonising over the strange lack of spark and was scratching his head as to what to do about it.
It was a tough call as at times it really seemed Mogga’s new look side were going to click. They played crisp football going forward and created chances. And they actually scored goals. Lots of goals. But at the back it was chaos. They over-played it, took high-risk touches in dangerous areas, did elaborate drag-backs in the box, got caught dawdling looking for a deft out-ball when a hoof into Row Z would have been far more effective. Getting the blend right is always the difficult bit in football. And the blend wasn’t right.
The consensus was that Mogga’s team was less than the sum of its parts. They were too cautious, too meek, too often set out nervously to stifle and counter the opposition no matter how limited when a more assertive and attacking approach may have paid dividends. Mogga was, and remains, an undisputed old school hero, the lunar leader and Bruce Rioch’s era personified. But sentiment can’t shield even an icon from the harsh realities of a results-driven businessAnd results were poor - not just on the pitch.
In Mowbray’s ill-fated final year all the important indicators – crowd figures and revenue as well as points return – were on the slide. The pressure built as results shrunk meekly through a stuttering 2013, damning statistics that swung the narrative on Teesside against him.
After going into Christmas in a promotion spot - again - Boro went on a terrifying nosedive that produced stark figures of Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 15 in 2013 before his sacking. Boro were among the worst defences in the league, scoring rates fell away badly, discipline collapsed, the flowing football faltered and morale in the crowd crumbled into bickering. And gates drifted slowly downwards too as frustrated fans failed to be inspired by a team that teased and hinted and promised but too often failed, especially at home and especially to teams from the basement. A growing disillusionment was reflected in the Riverside crowd.
Not just in a tetchy atmosphere and overt hostility but numbers too as gates shrunk by the month. A new low was recorded for the visit of Yeovil, Mogga’s final home game when just 13,181 turned out. That figure rather than the 4-1 win was probably the most important figure recorded that day. Under Financial Fair Play regulations, clubs’ spending is pegged to income and with no TV cash, in the Championship gate money is king. It funds the wage bill. It pays for signings. It determines next year’s budget. It marks out the realistic extent of ambition.
Steve Gibson knew the graphs falling so ominously threatened his hopes of being well placed to launch a promotion push before the FFP ceiling lowered any further restricting his own ability to put cash in. If Boro are to have any ambition of competing with the top few clubs who have post-Premier League parachute payments and rivals with far bigger resources then they need crowds to be considerably higher. And that can only come from bums on seats. With thousands drifting away declaring opposition to Mogga, Gibson’s hand was forced. Something had to be done. And Gibson did it. He counts Tony Mowbray as a good friend and a hero of 1986 – but the chairman is also a ruthless businessman. He knew he had to act before the club, already stalled, went into a steep decline that would be very difficult to halt. And he knew he had to get the right man in to build on the remedial work Mogga had done behind the scenes.
Along with the very public book-balancing Mowbray had rebuilt a infrastructure that had all but fallen into disrepair under Gordon Strachan: scouting, sports science, coaching and conditioning, the Academy, opposition analysis were all completely overhauled.
And he built the core of a decent side, signing a string of Value For Money players who are now first team fixtures.
But football is a harsh world.
Long-term good work is often overlooked in the immediacy of the more pressing concerns of results and revenue.
Tony Mowbray may not have been a Jack Charlton figure – but he may turn out to be a Stan Anderson, a man who did a lot of groundwork and built a strong platform for a future boss to work on.
If Boro go on to success under Aitor Karnaka he deserves some credit.
Even if they don’t he deserves thanks and appreciation for getting us through a difficult few years unscathed.
Tony Mowbray was axed as the club's manager on October 21 after a poor start to the 2013/14 season.
After the booing at Barnsley there was no way back for Mogga .Boro squandered early chances then imploded as the rock bottom Tykes carved unchallenged through a fragile, disjointed defence and danced to a barely believable 3-0 half-time lead. It was chaos. It was shambolic. It was embarrassing. And it was too much for the 2,000 strong travelling Boro crowd. At Oakwell, the dam broke.
It was the tipping point. For the first time a long simmering opposition became vocal and vitriolic and turned its fire directly on the former Ayresome hero. A year of frustration burst out. “You’re Getting Sacked In The Morning” broke spontaneously from amid the generalised booing. It wasn’t universal but it wasn’t a tiny faction either. It was widespread. It was loud. It was obvious. It was a reluctant but unequivocal demand. It was quickly followed by a brave, loyal “One Tony Mowbray” but that response was short-lived and half-hearted. There was an air of inevitability.
Asked later about the booing, Steve Gibson said “Hear it? I started it.” Tongue-in-cheek maybe, but only three months earlier Gibson had sanctioned hefty spending by his manager. The spoke volumes about exactly how far and how quickly the political climate had changed. With what was supposed to be a the breakthrough season dead in the water, the situation had taken a sickening lurch against the boss. The tunnel at Oakwell is in the corner next to the away end and a sizeable group of several hundred Boro fans had run down to angrily point and jeer as a dispirited team skulked off at the break.
Mogga lingered gloomily on the pitch before trudging off through a gauntlet of hate, a lonely and broken looking man. The sad scene had an heavy air of finality about it - and it was played out in front of a stony-faced Steve Gibson. The chairman watched from the directors box along with Neil Bausor, Keith Lamb and advisor without portfolio Peter Kenyon, the entire politburo looking tetchy at the troubling figures from the five year plan and ready to make some ruthless strategic policy decisions.
Albert Adomah scored twice after the break and Muzzy Carayol clipped the bar in a spirited revival. But it was too little, too late. You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. Barnsley wasn’t the first sudden slump by brittle Boro that term. A similar early collapse saw Boro two down after 10 minutes at home to Bournemouth before clawing in front - only to again wobble to draw 3-3. They let slip two goal leads at Forest and Wigan and suffered a dismal no-show at Ipswich. Mogga had spent well over £2m in the summer. He had brought in £1m man Albert Adomah, Dean Whitehead and Jozsef Varga pre-season then spent another £1.5m on deadline to recruit Kei Kamara and Jacob Butterfield as Boro became one of the division’s biggest investors. A couple of others got away too - notably Ross McCormack - while a string of proposed loan deals for European players (and Kenneth Omeruo) weren’t followed up... but for the first time it was unquestionably Tony Mowbray’s team. And with that recruitment went any mitigation. The toxic bump in the wage bill was gone, the awkward squad on the naughty step were gone.
No more excuses: it was time to deliver. Mogga had worked wonders with an unbalanced and demoralised inherited squad when he first arrived and did well to patch the team up with one hand tied behind his back as he went along. But liberated, with money, with his own men, Mogga failed. By the end results had made it very easy for anyone – in the crowd or in the boardroom – to construct a compelling argument against him. By the end everything that his arrival had promised went sour. The unity he had fostered on his arrival fractured with factions developing in the crowd and bitter squabbling spilling onto phone-in airwaves and into cyberspace. The sense of pride in having a Teesside accent from boardroom to boot-room dissipated too. It seemed parochial romantic nonsense when Boro were losing their way. And the much vaunted expansive football utopia of expansive, attacking football on solid foundations spluttered and died. Like most fans, Gibson had agonising over the strange lack of spark and was scratching his head as to what to do about it.
It was a tough call as at times it really seemed Mogga’s new look side were going to click. They played crisp football going forward and created chances. And they actually scored goals. Lots of goals. But at the back it was chaos. They over-played it, took high-risk touches in dangerous areas, did elaborate drag-backs in the box, got caught dawdling looking for a deft out-ball when a hoof into Row Z would have been far more effective. Getting the blend right is always the difficult bit in football. And the blend wasn’t right.
The consensus was that Mogga’s team was less than the sum of its parts. They were too cautious, too meek, too often set out nervously to stifle and counter the opposition no matter how limited when a more assertive and attacking approach may have paid dividends. Mogga was, and remains, an undisputed old school hero, the lunar leader and Bruce Rioch’s era personified. But sentiment can’t shield even an icon from the harsh realities of a results-driven businessAnd results were poor - not just on the pitch.
In Mowbray’s ill-fated final year all the important indicators – crowd figures and revenue as well as points return – were on the slide. The pressure built as results shrunk meekly through a stuttering 2013, damning statistics that swung the narrative on Teesside against him.
After going into Christmas in a promotion spot - again - Boro went on a terrifying nosedive that produced stark figures of Won 3 Drawn 3 Lost 15 in 2013 before his sacking. Boro were among the worst defences in the league, scoring rates fell away badly, discipline collapsed, the flowing football faltered and morale in the crowd crumbled into bickering. And gates drifted slowly downwards too as frustrated fans failed to be inspired by a team that teased and hinted and promised but too often failed, especially at home and especially to teams from the basement. A growing disillusionment was reflected in the Riverside crowd.
Not just in a tetchy atmosphere and overt hostility but numbers too as gates shrunk by the month. A new low was recorded for the visit of Yeovil, Mogga’s final home game when just 13,181 turned out. That figure rather than the 4-1 win was probably the most important figure recorded that day. Under Financial Fair Play regulations, clubs’ spending is pegged to income and with no TV cash, in the Championship gate money is king. It funds the wage bill. It pays for signings. It determines next year’s budget. It marks out the realistic extent of ambition.
Steve Gibson knew the graphs falling so ominously threatened his hopes of being well placed to launch a promotion push before the FFP ceiling lowered any further restricting his own ability to put cash in. If Boro are to have any ambition of competing with the top few clubs who have post-Premier League parachute payments and rivals with far bigger resources then they need crowds to be considerably higher. And that can only come from bums on seats. With thousands drifting away declaring opposition to Mogga, Gibson’s hand was forced. Something had to be done. And Gibson did it. He counts Tony Mowbray as a good friend and a hero of 1986 – but the chairman is also a ruthless businessman. He knew he had to act before the club, already stalled, went into a steep decline that would be very difficult to halt. And he knew he had to get the right man in to build on the remedial work Mogga had done behind the scenes.
Along with the very public book-balancing Mowbray had rebuilt a infrastructure that had all but fallen into disrepair under Gordon Strachan: scouting, sports science, coaching and conditioning, the Academy, opposition analysis were all completely overhauled.
And he built the core of a decent side, signing a string of Value For Money players who are now first team fixtures.
But football is a harsh world.
Long-term good work is often overlooked in the immediacy of the more pressing concerns of results and revenue.
Tony Mowbray may not have been a Jack Charlton figure – but he may turn out to be a Stan Anderson, a man who did a lot of groundwork and built a strong platform for a future boss to work on.
If Boro go on to success under Aitor Karnaka he deserves some credit.
Even if they don’t he deserves thanks and appreciation for getting us through a difficult few years unscathed.
Otto42
Well-known member
Here here, imho it’s never black and white, in this case Warnock good and Wilder bad. Warnock did a decent job in very difficult circumstances and Wilder turned us into genuine contenders in the second half of last season. Such is modern football and fan expectations that things unravel very quickly.
Rofesleg
Well-known member
OK, so when you said their records were comparable you meant that they MIGHT have been comparable EVENTUALLY but only IF Warnock had the same players available as Karanka.
Rofesleg
Well-known member
Not in the Championship he didn't.You seem to have omitted one important stat.
Karanka spent £79,000,000
Thanks