Paylor article - Gazette bricked it, deleted all comments!

indeedido said:
Or alternatively they print only what your photo will tolerate.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that's true, because maybe they realise without him we'd be owned by a consortium only wanting profit we as a club, town and fanbase can't provide.

You've posted some really insightful information regarding finances, but what we can't say is what the owner plans for the future, if anything. He obviously wants us to be self sufficient which is pretty much what any future owner would want, maybe he wants to make us financially secure so he can sell, and who'd blame him? I just think we'd need to be pretty lucky to get any other owners who can give us anything like what he has over the years.
 
Gains said:
Perhaps that's true, because maybe they realise without him we'd be owned by a consortium only wanting profit we as a club, town and fanbase can't provide.

You've posted some really insightful information regarding finances, but what we can't say is what the owner plans for the future, if anything. He obviously wants us to be self sufficient which is pretty much what any future owner would want, maybe he wants to make us financially secure so he can sell, and who'd blame him? I just think we'd need to be pretty lucky to get any other owners who can give us anything like what he has over the years.
Click to expand...
I've said for a long time that I have no doubt he loves the club and that without him our losses would not have been guaranteed and we would have gone titsup.
My frustrations are all around the quality of his decisions over a 16 year period. It is the consequences of those that leave us in the financial position we are.
I don't doubt he would like to get out in an ideal world, but it would cost him a fortune. He really only can sell if we are free of the debt owed, or back in the PL in a different revenue world.
 
Just read the article and thought what a load of shoite.

Now is the time to grasp the nettle and now is the time to stand up and be counted rubbish.

Sorry rhe time to stand up was when the season kicked off last bloody month. The article reads like the kind of thing you see when teams are about to be relegated
 
lostinyorkshire said:
Just read the article and thought what a load of shoite.

Now is the time to grasp the nettle and now is the time to stand up and be counted rubbish.

Sorry rhe time to stand up was when the season kicked off last bloody month. The article reads like the kind of thing you see when teams are about to be relegated
Click to expand...
I'd love him to an honest interview of where we've come as a club from this interview, and where he thinks we're heading.

15th May 2017..............

Speaking to BBC Tees, Gibson admitted that key decisions made at the top level contributed to their downfall.

"The fact that we haven't fulfilled our objective tells you we've made mistakes," said Gibson.

"It's heartbreaking really. The season's been really tough. You make decisions and your mistakes are a retrospective view of the decisions you make.

"At the time we thought we were making the right decisions with the information that we had but many things have gone wrong."

"Our plans are to change all aspects of the club. We have spent the last month looking at what we've done this season, how we've done it and what could be better.

"I've got to be careful because it will affect others who are currently within the club. We have to get it right.

"Collectively, responsibility lies through me and right the way through the club. We failed and we don't need telling that we've failed. It hurts but we have to correct our mistakes now."

"There was never anyone lined up (after the sacking of Karanka)," said Gibson. "I think the world of Steve Agnew. He's worked for this club for a very long time and he was the player's choice as well as my choice."

Once it has decided on the roles he wants people to take at the Riverside, Gibson hopes his plan will lead to a triumphant return to the top flight.

"There's only one place I want for this club and it's in the Premier League," he said.

"The club is well run and we're in a good financial state so we will have more resources going into next season than any other Championship club.
 
indeedido said:
My frustrations are all around the quality of his decisions over a 16 year period. It is the consequences of those that leave us in the financial position we are.
I don't doubt he would like to get out in an ideal world, but it would cost him a fortune. He really only can sell if we are free of the debt owed, or back in the PL in a different revenue world.
Click to expand...
Theyā€™re mine and most fans frustrations too. At least heā€™s tried to address his own shortcomings by bringing Scott in and addressing the recruitment, but thatā€™s very early days.
My main thoughts are weā€™re clearly trying to follow a few clubs model where theyā€™re profitable, buy low, sell high and look for another young bargain we can develop. People liked that idea, yet all I see is anger we havenā€™t spent everything weā€™ve brought it this summer.
It goes back to understanding the model weā€™re trying to follow is clubs who are punching above their weight, if we make the PL, or even flirt with it, a club our size with our fan base and finances is quite clearly doing that.
Weā€™re heading in the right direction, results arenā€™t where we want them yet but things are looking up. Sacking Wilder now, or begging Gibson to sell is the usual ā€œI want it all and I want it nowā€ generation. It isnā€™t going to happen and nor should it.
 
Gains said:
Theyā€™re mine and most fans frustrations too. At least heā€™s tried to address his own shortcomings by bringing Scott in and addressing the recruitment, but thatā€™s very early days.
My main thoughts are weā€™re clearly trying to follow a few clubs model where theyā€™re profitable, buy low, sell high and look for another young bargain we can develop. People liked that idea, yet all I see is anger we havenā€™t spent everything weā€™ve brought it this summer.
It goes back to understanding the model weā€™re trying to follow is clubs who are punching above their weight, if we make the PL, or even flirt with it, a club our size with our fan base and finances is quite clearly doing that.
Weā€™re heading in the right direction, results arenā€™t where we want them yet but things are looking up. Sacking Wilder now, or begging Gibson to sell is the usual ā€œI want it all and I want it nowā€ generation. It isnā€™t going to happen and nor should it.
Click to expand...
It is far from the usual "I want it all and I want it now" generation.
If this club gets into the PL, it is NOT punching above its weight, it is performing where it has for the majority of its history.
The fanbase can fill the stadium, even paying high ticket prices.
The revenue potential in the PL is at least the same as lots of other clubs who are there. (Wolves, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, Southampton, Crystal Palace, Forest, Leicester, Fulham) and most certainly others who have recently been there ( Norwich, Burnley, Watford). There is no club who are clearly more heavyweight in this league without PP's.

I'm not saying Gibson hasn't/doesn't try to address problems; just that he consistently picks the wrong people and makes the wrong big decisions. That is what is "usual".

This is the second longest run since 2009 of seasons outside the top flight in the club's history.
How about we punch at our weight, not floundering about with a small squad lacking quality at the bottom of the second tier?
 
indeedido said:
It is far from the usual "I want it all and I want it now" generation.
If this club gets into the PL, it is NOT punching above its weight, it is performing where it has for the majority of its history.
The fanbase can fill the stadium, even paying high ticket prices.
The revenue potential in the PL is at least the same as lots of other clubs who are there. (Wolves, Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford, Southampton, Crystal Palace, Forest, Leicester, Fulham) and most certainly others who have recently been there ( Norwich, Burnley, Watford). There is no club who are clearly more heavyweight in this league without PP's.

I'm not saying Gibson hasn't/doesn't try to address problems; just that he consistently picks the wrong people and makes the wrong big decisions. That is what is "usual".

This is the second longest run since 2009 of seasons outside the top flight in the club's history.
How about we punch at our weight, not floundering about with a small squad lacking quality at the bottom of the second tier?
Click to expand...
I don't think you can look at history as a barometer for where we are now. Football in this country is unrecognisable from the last century - look at the amount of Billionaire owners, in those terms Gibson isn't wealthy at all. I take your point about punching, you would definitely consider us similar in stature to many of those clubs if we were in the PL for any length of time, but I'd guess they're all owned by wealthier people than Gibson. Brighton were out of the top flight for 30 odd years before they got back, Brentford 70 years. But now they're being lauded as our model we aspire to.

My point being the size of our club/town/fanbase/catchment area doesn't entitle us to be in the PL like some seem to think. And the modern generation I'm referring to are the ones insisting we should sack Wilder for Scott bloody Parker ffs, thinking that will get them what they want. I'm 50 and have been a regular at the match since the early 80's, so I probably do have more patience for Gibson than the young team, but while I accept some of your points about his mistakes, I think we're moving in the right direction and it could be a hell of a lot worse without him.
 
Gains said:
I'm 50 and have been a regular at the match since the early 80's, so I probably do have more patience for Gibson than the young team, but while I accept some of your points about his mistakes, I think we're moving in the right direction and it could be a hell of a lot worse without him.
Click to expand...
I'm 60 and seen 10 years more than you (no member of "the young team")
Things would be worse without Gibson, as the club would definitely go under.
But completely because of the consequences of his leadership for 16 years and the financial position he has put the club in.

We can't move on from him. He won't move on from the club. We are stuck in a death cycle.
Nothing will improve with him in charge.

Middlesbrough FC has a catchment big enough to sustain a well run PL club.
We have no divine right, but history is relevant and is on our side.

You are right about owner wealth, but without the debt he has accumulated on the Club's behalf, are you seriously saying we couldn't attract a wealthier owner than him who would not make so many awful decisions?
 
indeedido said:
I'm 60 and seen 10 years more than you (no member of "the young team")
Things would be worse without Gibson, as the club would definitely go under.
But completely because of the consequences of his leadership for 16 years and the financial position he has put the club in.

We can't move on from him. He won't move on from the club. We are stuck in a death cycle.
Nothing will improve with him in charge.

Middlesbrough FC has a catchment big enough to sustain a well run PL club.
We have no divine right, but history is relevant and is on our side.

You are right about owner wealth, but without the debt he has accumulated on the Club's behalf, are you seriously saying we couldn't attract a wealthier owner than him who would not make so many awful decisions?
Click to expand...
I would guess we'd probably attract an investment company as owner with an employee put in charge as the face of the club, maybe Chinese or American company. The type of owner who only wants profit and will initially invest but won't understand that sustaining a football club needs continuous investment and the profit a club our size generates won't be enough. So they'll tighten the purse strings and we'll plummet.

Come on indeedido, I've enjoyed chatting to you but you have to be joking that nothing will improve with him in charge? He's brought in Kieran Scott, that in itself is an admission that he's not up to it in the current climate. But you can't blame him for feeling he could do it himself, from 94 to 06 was an amazing ride, and all down to him. Yes it's taken him a long time to admit his mistakes but admit it he's done by changing the structure. That in itself is improvement. Promotion would be improvement. Are you seriously saying promotion is beyond us with Gibson in charge?
 
Gains said:
Come on indeedido, I've enjoyed chatting to you but you have to be joking that nothing will improve with him in charge? He's brought in Kieran Scott, that in itself is an admission that he's not up to it in the current climate. But you can't blame him for feeling he could do it himself, from 94 to 06 was an amazing ride, and all down to him. Yes it's taken him a long time to admit his mistakes but admit it he's done by changing the structure. That in itself is improvement. Promotion would be improvement. Are you seriously saying promotion is beyond us with Gibson in charge?
Click to expand...
Promotion would indeed be a huge improvement and staying up even bigger.
Of course we could go up even with him as Chairman.
My honest opinion is that we have much less chance if he is making the key decisions.
He has brought in a Director of Football, but nothing in Scott's past, or performance to date here fills me with hope that:
1. He is a great stride forward.
2. Gibson will (edit) make the key decisions anyway, like he always has done. He just can't help himself.
 
Last edited:
indeedido said:
Promotion would indeed be a huge improvement and staying up even bigger.
Of course we could go up even with him as Chairman.
My honest opinion is that we have much less chance if he is making the key decisions.
He has brought in a Director of Football, but nothing in Scott's past, or performance to date here fills me with hope that:
1. He is a great stride forward.
2. Gibson will not make the key decisions anyway, like he always has done. He just can't help himself.
Click to expand...
1. It's early days but let's think positively.
2. He will, but I'd have thought it'll be signing off the work Scott has done. He probably knocked back going any higher with the Larson offer, granted probably thinking they'd crumble. And has probably refused to panic buy when main targets haven't come off like he has in the past, which I'd say is a good thing. But who knows? Not you or I. My daughter knows Gibson personally, not well but sees him through work regularly and I'm forever badgering her to ask him this or that, obviously she doesn't. But I also know some of his family and to be fair they know b***r all too. I should be well in the know but I'm so near yet so far, get absolutely zero info.
 
Gains said:
I don't think you can look at history as a barometer for where we are now. Football in this country is unrecognisable from the last century - look at the amount of Billionaire owners, in those terms Gibson isn't wealthy at all. I take your point about punching, you would definitely consider us similar in stature to many of those clubs if we were in the PL for any length of time, but I'd guess they're all owned by wealthier people than Gibson. Brighton were out of the top flight for 30 odd years before they got back, Brentford 70 years. But now they're being lauded as our model we aspire to.

My point being the size of our club/town/fanbase/catchment area doesn't entitle us to be in the PL like some seem to think. And the modern generation I'm referring to are the ones insisting we should sack Wilder for Scott bloody Parker ffs, thinking that will get them what they want. I'm 50 and have been a regular at the match since the early 80's, so I probably do have more patience for Gibson than the young team, but while I accept some of your points about his mistakes, I think we're moving in the right direction and it could be a hell of a lot worse without him.
Click to expand...
This is correct. Historic Boro hasn't had to deal with players with increased power. Would we have been able to keep players like Clough, mannion and camsell at the club? Historic Boro did not have to deal with the disparities in finance that we have now. Where teams like Brighton and Fulham can flourish with s***y attendances because they are located in an area that footballers like to live in and propped up with TV money. It's not a relevant comparison.

His decisions have been failures because 95% of footballing decisions are failures. There are only 3 promotion spots and the finances are stacked against us. None of his decisions have been universally loathed so I would say that they have been quite reasonable decisions. People even got behind the woodgate nonsense at first. Only Agnew in for Karanka I think is the ridiculous one. And even karankas sacking which was an abysmal decision was backed by over 50% on here I'd say , though the board is far less supportive of managers than the crowd in the stadium.

Gibson has recognised his past failures and is trying to address them in the transfer policy which we are seeing. You don't just quit at the first sign of trouble. Reverting to the old model of chucking away massive transfer fees on players on long term contracts that the club has no wish to sell has failed for us on multiple occasions previously. I don't see why we would expect it to work this time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top