Protect our pensions petition

bear66 said:
A case for why it may make sense.

However, that does not mean all pensioners are going to be laughing all the way to the bank.

The UK state pension is one of the less generous in Europe.

Former pensions minister Sir Steve Webb said it was still "far from a King's ransom".

In addition, lots of low-paid workers have lost their jobs during the pandemic, the OBR points out. The effect of that trend is that it skews the comparison of wages, meaning that average wages are driven by higher paid workers and rising faster.

That means the people who are losing their jobs now, are the very same people who are more likely to rely on the state pension in the future. They will not have built up additional private or workplace pensions.

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Will there be people who have not struck a bat for 40 years and expertly avoided working, who would pick up the same state pension as those who have worked hard and contributed for 40 years???
 
OttersBoro said:
Average earning rise by around 9% in last year purely because they collapsed previously due to Covid destroying earnings. Those taxpayers gain nothing overall but some think its fair to give pensioners the 9% gain... paid for of course by the taxpayer ie many of those who have had to greatly economically suffer in the last few years.

Doesnt feel like inter - generational fairness. Got to feel sorry for younger people in my opinion.
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Do you not understand the concept of pay it forward?

I've signed it and I told my MP I did and asked what is position on it was too.

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the_holgate_roof said:
Will there be people who have not struck a bat for 40 years and expertly avoided working, who would pick up the same state pension as those who have worked hard and contributed for 40 years???
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Yes , they will get a reduced state pension but will get pension credit , council tax refund etc to make up the shortfall .
 
OttersBoro said:
Amusing since when did you make a payment to cover a 8-9% pension increase, purely caused by a pandemic from a triple lock pension brought in by the Tories a few years ago. Did you 'paying forward' cover that 20- 30 years ago??
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Unless you think I'm mystic Meg, then the answer is no, of course not. I've paid into the system so far for 27 years and I have another 27 years before I'm due to retire. I think our pensioners are woefully underfunded and I'm more than happy to pick up this 9% as a taxpayer if it makes their lives easier. Same as I'm more than happy to pay additional tax to improve social welfare nets for the most vulnerable. I'm an advocate for Universal Income too.

I don't agree that we should kick pensioners to help the young, lets maybe try helping everyone rather than kicking one group to benefit another.
 
BaronSmoggie said:
Unless you think I'm mystic Meg, then the answer is no, of course not. I've paid into the system so far for 27 years and I have another 27 years before I'm due to retire. I think our pensioners are woefully underfunded and I'm more than happy to pick up this 9% as a taxpayer if it makes their lives easier. Same as I'm more than happy to pay additional tax to improve social welfare nets for the most vulnerable. I'm an advocate for Universal Income too.

I don't agree that we should kick pensioners to help the young, lets maybe try helping everyone rather than kicking one group to benefit another.
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Yep, me too. Happy if tax rates went up, just some concerns on unintended consequences eg certain people perhaps working less, some companies moving away etc
 
OttersBoro said:
Yep, me too. Happy if tax rates went up, just some concerns on unintended consequences eg certain people perhaps working less, some companies moving away etc
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I think it goes hand in hand saying that if we provide a much better welfare service, then we also have to make sure that due diligence and enforcement is better too, to limit fraud. This shouldn't be done by third party for profit companies either based on bonuses and targets. It should be a function of government to ensure value to the taxpayer. I know that goes against the Conservative ideal, but I frankly don't care.
 
OttersBoro said:
Oh ok, didnt realise we are ultra capatalist good to know that
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you need to pay more attention then, we are almost as extreme economically to the right as the soviet union was to the left, almost...and we've been moving further to the right with the adoption of neo-liberalism on a regular basis. when people finally come to the conclusion that capitalism is just as extreme and damaging as communism then it's easier to be more balanced.

OttersBoro said:
Also just dont get some of this... equity release is new and therefore its not signifcant ... ??? what does that mean
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it's not significant to the point at hand, because it wasn't in the plans of any of the current pension holders. It's a sticky plaster over the failure of neo liberal politics. It's actually just another example of the rich exploiting. The less wealthy having to give up their homes, that they worked their whole lives for, instead of handing down to their children to help them get out of the cycle of exploitation. Who makes money from equity release, the elites, the rich, the capitalists.

Anyway, you are another incarnation of the usual political right person that appears here on a regular basis. So you can argue your dishonest nonsense with someone else. Bye
 
Nosmo-King said:
A few things need to be realised. You pay tax on your pension - be it at the level you paid tax. A lot of people retiring do not have any savings or private pensions - for whatever reason. A number are taking money out of the equity of their home ( equity release) to give them a lump sum to help live. And perhaps have a bit of money to fall back on.
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agreed, the people that haven't got private pension tend to fall into 2 categories, 1) spent their whole life earning low wages and couldn't put anything away. There are huge numbers in this because the state effectively sponsors this kind of worker exploitation by having a very low minimum wage. They've made an imminent crisis by doubling down on this and having things like zero hours contracts, and subsidising low wages through our benefits system. Another 30 years, state pension issues are going to be much worse as many, many more people will retire with nothing. 2) Keeping up with the jones's attitude of spend it and prove how rich you are rather than save for your pension, people living beyond their means, and would rather have 2 holidays in spain every year than save.

I'd argue that we are getting more and more people in that first category, and I think it will reach crisis level one day.
 
OttersBoro said:
I think the point is that giving a Tax break isnt the Government giving away its money its making a decision about how to distribute our money - that Tax break to the young person is being paid for by the rest of soceity. Personally I would have concerns about how future taxpayers pay it back with debt/ gdp levels we have.
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we don't pay debt back with taxes. Taxes largely manage inflation in a modern democracy with it's own currency and it's own central bank that can print as much as it wants.
 
BoroMart said:
agreed, the people that haven't got private pension tend to fall into 2 categories, 1) spent their whole life earning low wages and couldn't put anything away. There are huge numbers in this because the state effectively sponsors this kind of worker exploitation by having a very low minimum wage. They've made an imminent crisis by doubling down on this and having things like zero hours contracts, and subsidising low wages through our benefits system. Another 30 years, state pension issues are going to be much worse as many, many more people will retire with nothing. 2) Keeping up with the jones's attitude of spend it and prove how rich you are rather than save for your pension, people living beyond their means, and would rather have 2 holidays in spain every year than save.

I'd argue that we are getting more and more people in that first category, and I think it will reach crisis level one day.
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Of that I agree totally. I don’t know if workplace pension schemes may alter things drastically?
 
Nosmo-King said:
I read you need a million pounds pension pot - that would yield around £20000 a year ( private pension)
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a quick check is 400k pot will yield 20k/year. But off course that isn't tax free. So £17,240 net. Probably about 500k for 20k net.
 
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