Sam Greenwood

I'm back on the fence...
If we're playing with the little pace our squad has , with Jones / bangura etc..
His niggly way can impede....

When the team is really lovely, gentlemanly, and polite..
His niggly way is probably useful... We look too nice to play against in the championship against the bottom end.

It's all well and good saying " ah well... At least someone tried something creative. .. shame it didn't work"

But, his needle needs positivity as well
 
sambaDTR said:
Greenwood is underrated. Works really hard for the team. Get’s stuck in a defends from the front. Reminds me of a young Mark Hughes. Is only young but has the right mentality. Created the goal for Engel at Millwall that helped us win the game. (y)
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I think he's another young player, much like Rogers, who has lots of obvious talent and a very prominent rise through the young system leading to a big money signing by a top 6 team.

But, also like Rogers, his development and progress has stuttered a bit, almost certainly due to a lack of game time and I think you have to accept you're watching a work in progress.

He has the raw talent and also the right mentality (he's pretty robust, just ask Sam Clucas!), which gives him a great chance of realising that talent fully.
 
indeedido said:
Greenwood is a talented player, who works very hard. He needs coaching on how to best use his talent.

Interestingly he has scored 5 league goals and has 3 league assists in his 23 league appearances.
Only Crooks with 9, has more goal involvements, in 2 more league matches.

Wonder boy Rogers has just 2 goals and 6 assists and in 3 more matches.

I am stunned at how much stick Greenwood gets.
He is a good player and was our best player in the first half.
He puts it all in.
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Like Rogers he is a typical young player with talent. Capable of good bits of play but equally can frustrate by picking the wrong option or dwelling on the ball and losing possession. The only consistent thing about their play is inconsistency.

So much of the game is about decision making and that comes with experience. Rogers and Greenwood are both good players and will improve with game time over the coming years. Which is why Rogers needs to stay and play here rather than rot in Villa's stiffs for a year before being loaned to the Championship in 12 months time (the Ryan Giles career arc I think it's called).

I like Greenwood and agree he gets unwarranted stick, he always tries even if things aren't going well for him. I wonder if the dual demon dynamic of a Mackem upbringing and Leeds as a parent club means some Boro fans have less patience where he's concerned?
 
theredrooster said:
Like Rogers he is a typical young player with talent. Capable of good bits of play but equally can frustrate by picking the wrong option or dwelling on the ball and losing possession. The only consistent thing about their play is inconsistency.

So much of the game is about decision making and that comes with experience. Rogers and Greenwood are both good players and will improve with game time over the coming years. Which is why Rogers needs to stay and play here rather than rot in Villa's stiffs for a year before being loaned to the Championship in 12 months time (the Ryan Giles career arc I think it's called).

I like Greenwood and agree he gets unwarranted stick, he always tries even if things aren't going well for him. I wonder if the dual demon dynamic of a Mackem upbringing and Leeds as a parent club means some Boro fans have less patience where he's concerned?
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A string of reasonable, sensible posts :oops:

Certainly think him being on loan from Leeds ("if he's not good enough for them") doesn't help with some.
 
I like Greenwood. Don’t understand the stick he gets. Of course he blows hot and cold - most young players do. In fact, most attacking players do full stop.
His aggression isn’t a problem for me - we’ve been ‘too nice’ for far too long and in the absence of Smith, we’ve not really got any ********* types who will at least give as good as they get (Ayling is another who ticks that box). I never really understand the stick Greenwood gets, or the future superstar adoration Rogers receives, tbh. They both have similar goal contributions and I’d say Rogers loses possession just as often as Greenwood does.
As said repeatedly above, just got to accept these lads are very much a work in progress and cut them some slack and support them.
I actually get waaaay more frustrated with Rogers. There, I’ve said it. Guess we all see different things.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I like Greenwood. Don’t understand the stick he gets. Of course he blows hot and cold - most young players do. In fact, most attacking players do full stop.
His aggression isn’t a problem for me - we’ve been ‘too nice’ for far too long and in the absence of Smith, we’ve not really got any ********* types who will at least give as good as they get (Ayling is another who ticks that box). I never really understand the stick Greenwood gets, or the future superstar adoration Rogers receives, tbh. They both have similar goal contributions and I’d say Rogers loses possession just as often as Greenwood does.
As said repeatedly above, just got to accept these lads are very much a work in progress and cut them some slack and support them.
I actually get waaaay more frustrated with Rogers. There, I’ve said it. Guess we all see different things.
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Rogers does lose the ball and it's frustrating but it's things like he beats a man, gets into space and then misplaces a pass. Greenwood gets the ball and then runs straight into defenders or into a dead end when there is a pass on. He isn't good at dribbling so the decision to do that is a bad/stupid one.

Rogers is making the right decision but getting the execution wrong. That's frustrating to watch but it's not as bad as watching someone repeatedly do something stupid.
 
I don't know what Boro fans expect from players sometimes.
Rogers was getting pelters on here a few months ago and now he's subject to a possible £10 million bid from a PL team who could quality for the champions league.

Greenwood's still only 21 years old.
He was good enough for Arsenal to sign as a youth player. Good enough for Leeds to sign and play him 25 times in the premier league, good enough for England U21s... and he's good enough for Boro.
 
Nano said:
Rogers does lose the ball and it's frustrating but it's things like he beats a man, gets into space and then misplaces a pass. Greenwood gets the ball and then runs straight into defenders or into a dead end when there is a pass on. He isn't good at dribbling so the decision to do that is a bad/stupid one.

Rogers is making the right decision but getting the execution wrong. That's frustrating to watch but it's not as bad as watching someone repeatedly do something stupid.
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I agree Greenwood isn’t as good at dribbling as Rogers, but let’s not pretend Rogers is always losing the ball because he’s making the right decision but trying something incredibly difficult. He often makes the wrong decision, places simple passes straight to the opposition, over or under hits through balls or loses possession without beating anyone, in much the same way Greenwood does (or Jones, for that matter)
It’s true that he also often has a really good ten minute spell (as on Saturday) where most things come off for him, and then the other 70/80 mins of misplaced passes or surrendering possession seemingly get completely wiped from memory for most of us fans. I’d dare say Rogers pass completion stats are actually comparable to Greenwood, maybe even worse, but unlike Jones and Greenwood who get pelters for the same, he gets let off the hook. Anyway, I hope they all succeed and fulfil their potential, and hopefully they go some way towards doing that with us and we can reap the benefits.
 
As someone said above there are some sensible posts on this thread but it is nice to see people disagreeing in a respectful and civilised way for a change 👍
 
Il Preside said:
As someone said above there are some sensible posts on this thread but it is nice to see people disagreeing in a respectful and civilised way for a change 👍
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I'm calling bull**** on this nonsense post 😛🤣

Anyway my view on Sam, got some on the ball ability and works hard, sometimes not so smart, but he isn't a shirker. As he gets more experience and maturity, I would think he'll make the right decision more often and curb his over exuberance in the tackle, he will be at worst a top championship player if he avoids injuries and outside influences. He came to us with very very few professional minutes experience, he really was a novice. At 1.5m I'd certainly take him onboard, as a project.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
I agree Greenwood isn’t as good at dribbling as Rogers, but let’s not pretend Rogers is always losing the ball because he’s making the right decision but trying something incredibly difficult. He often makes the wrong decision, places simple passes straight to the opposition, over or under hits through balls or loses possession without beating anyone, in much the same way Greenwood does (or Jones, for that matter)
It’s true that he also often has a really good ten minute spell (as on Saturday) where most things come off for him, and then the other 70/80 mins of misplaced passes or surrendering possession seemingly get completely wiped from memory for most of us fans. I’d dare say Rogers pass completion stats are actually comparable to Greenwood, maybe even worse, but unlike Jones and Greenwood who get pelters for the same, he gets let off the hook. Anyway, I hope they all succeed and fulfil their potential, and hopefully they go some way towards doing that with us and we can reap the benefits.
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I definitely agree. I don't think Rogers is the finished article either and I'm baffled by the Villa interest. The big, huge, massive difference I see between the two players is that one of them is ours and the other one isn't. Greenwood is an expensive loan. We shouldn't be signing loans to develop other team's players, they should already be good enough. I'm happy to see Rogers there developing because we get something out of it if he does. With Greenwood I want it now because that is what a loan should offer.

I know we have an option to buy but from what I have seen it doesn't look like a worthwhile option because he's not good enough and his wages would be too high for someone that offers what he does. I feel like if we sign him he'll still be here in 3 or 4 years time on a high salary because we can't get rid.

I really struggle to see why Leeds would let a promising youngster go for £1.5m. It's not like City letting Rogers go because he is never going to get near City's team. Leeds are a championship team. They clearly have no belief that he will develop beyond what he is now or why else would they let him go for so little?
 
I think most can see that Greenwood hasnt been at the level he was earlier in the season. We dont know what his instructions are from MC though, and he might be doing EXACTLY what is being asked of him. (I dont need anyone to chime in with "what - be sh*t and run into defenders").

Carrick is obviously happy with something as he keeps picking him - notwithstanding our injuries of late.

I like someone who can put it about a bit as we have too many 'nice' players. Barlaser being the perfect example. Great to watch on his good days but not interested in putting himself in the mixer.

I am one of those in the stands moaning about Greenwood the last few weeks, but sat in the sanctuary of my home office with soft lighting and a calming aroma emanating from my wax melt, I think he is a player I'd like us to sign at the end of the season. At 21, I can see talent and hunger and that should bode well for him in the coming years of his career with regular football.
 
Nano said:
I definitely agree. I don't think Rogers is the finished article either and I'm baffled by the Villa interest. The big, huge, massive difference I see between the two players is that one of them is ours and the other one isn't. Greenwood is an expensive loan. We shouldn't be signing loans to develop other team's players, they should already be good enough. I'm happy to see Rogers there developing because we get something out of it if he does. With Greenwood I want it now because that is what a loan should offer.

I know we have an option to buy but from what I have seen it doesn't look like a worthwhile option because he's not good enough and his wages would be too high for someone that offers what he does. I feel like if we sign him he'll still be here in 3 or 4 years time on a high salary because we can't get rid.

I really struggle to see why Leeds would let a promising youngster go for £1.5m. It's not like City letting Rogers go because he is never going to get near City's team. Leeds are a championship team. They clearly have no belief that he will develop beyond what he is now or why else would they let him go for so little?
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All fair points and I can’t really disagree with any of that 👍
 
BigAl76 said:
I think most can see that Greenwood hasnt been at the level he was earlier in the season. We dont know what his instructions are from MC though, and he might be doing EXACTLY what is being asked of him. (I dont need anyone to chime in with "what - be sh*t and run into defenders").

Carrick is obviously happy with something as he keeps picking him - notwithstanding our injuries of late.

I like someone who can put it about a bit as we have too many 'nice' players. Barlaser being the perfect example. Great to watch on his good days but not interested in putting himself in the mixer.

I am one of those in the stands moaning about Greenwood the last few weeks, but sat in the sanctuary of my home office with soft lighting and a calming aroma emanating from my wax melt, I think he is a player I'd like us to sign at the end of the season. At 21, I can see talent and hunger and that should bode well for him in the coming years of his career with regular football.
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I can see effort and i can see talent at times but more than anything i see him going up blind alleys. I was hoping to see more from him on Saturday when he was playing centrally but for all his effort and running it just doesnt seem to click for him as a team player . Despite all the game time he doesn't seem to have formed any meaningful partnerships or understandings with his team mates. To me hes a player who performs in isolation and doesn't adapt to circumstances on the pitch. This is either a lack of footballing intelligence or arrogance on his part. After 3 or 4 months theres been no development in his play hes one of the very few players who carrick hasnt managed to improve. Personally i would cut our losses and look elsewhere.
 
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