Shamima Begum refused return to UK

BoroMart

Well-known member
I know what you mean but her guilt/innocence isn't in question is it? I mean she isn't denying anything. It is a tough one and I'm really just saying emotionally, this is how people would generally feel about her coming back. I doubt if you would find many that would welcome her back, even to face justice.
People stand trial every day with a plea of guilty. It's an irrelevance to the course of our justice system. People still have the right even when guilty, to stand and explain how and why, mitigating circumstances, etc. It's a cornerstone of our system, the right to a fair trial.

Also she has killed no one, should we take citizenship from anyone that has threatened to kill people? It's a dangerous route to go down.
 
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HarryVegas

Well-known member
Too close together, I reckon.

FFS, I've only just read a couple of things on this thread and I'm already in despair. What have we come to as a nation?
 

Mountain Climber

Active member
We should not underestimate the messages our eyes appearance tell us. Scientific research in this country and the US recently came to the findings that psychopaths, or the more socially acceptable term sociopaths, eyes respond differently to those without aggressive personality disorders. It is easier to spot empathy in someones stare if they are not psychopathic. They also noted psychopaths eye pupils do not dilate when viewing something horrific, whereas others will. From my own work experience I have come across killers and people who have inflicted harm to others and I believe the eyes do tell a story. Science backs that up.
 

HarryVegas

Well-known member
We should not underestimate the messages our eyes appearance tell us. Scientific research in this country and the US recently came to the findings that psychopaths, or the more socially acceptable term sociopaths, eyes respond differently to those without aggressive personality disorders. It is easier to spot empathy in someones stare if they are not psychopathic. They also noted psychopaths eye pupils do not dilate when viewing something horrific, whereas others will. From my own work experience I have come across killers and people who have inflicted harm to others and I believe the eyes do tell a story. Science backs that up.
Lacking empathy is not a crime. There are many, many people in our society who lack empathy, not because they are murderers but because they are wired differently to most.
 

jam69

Well-known member
I have mixed feelings towards this lady and her plight. On the one hand I empathise with her. I feel she is young, was very young when she decided to embark on her gruesome journey, and may have been 'influenced' by others who she saw as role models, and should have known better. If I could feel reassured she would return to this country and start afresh, and make something worthwhile out of her life, I would support this. Having said that she showed not a modicum of remorse when interviewed. Her lack of emotion or shock when discussing beheadings really shocked me. She was devoid of any humanity. I was immature when I was her age but there is a difference between excessive drinking and lecherous behaviours and wanting to sever someones head who disagreed with you.
The lack of remorse might come from a fear of repercussions, shes classed as a traitor by the hard-core isis women and has been moved for her own safety.
Apparently there's around 30 murders a month in those camps.
No sympathy for her plight but we are just passing the buck on our responsibility
 

Mountain Climber

Active member
Lacking empathy is not a crime. There are many, many people in our society who lack empathy, not because they are murderers but because they are wired differently to most.
Lacking empathy is not a crime, yes. It is a recognised sign though to someones sense of humanity, and this is absent in psychopathic disorders. When you say they are 'wired differently' it is another way of saying they are sociopathic. They lack remorse for their behaviours or crimes towards others, or just basic decency in their personality makeup.
 

Mountain Climber

Active member
The lack of remorse might come from a fear of repercussions, shes classed as a traitor by the hard-core isis women and has been moved for her own safety.
Apparently there's around 30 murders a month in those camps.
No sympathy for her plight but we are just passing the buck on our responsibility
Valid point, well made. It must be a horrific set up sleeping on dirty mattresses in an alien environment surrounded by strangers. I am not defending her in any way but I can empathise with her plight, albeit self inflicted. As bad as Bethnal Green is it does not compare to those camps.
 

Mountain Climber

Active member
No it's not. Study MBTI and you'll see there is much, much more to it than 'normal/sociopath'.
We still do not fully understand the brain and its absolute workings after centuries of research. Our behaviour and mental health is often a consequence of social, physiological, economical and environmental factors. Sometimes only one of these, sometimes all of them. We know mostly what makes and keeps us mentally well, but often fail to pinpoint what made us unwell in the first place.
 

coluka

Well-known member
It really amazes me that people are determined to stick up for the human rights of terrorists who think it ok to sew people into suicide vests that go on to kill people. I don't believe she was thinking of the human rights of anyone with her needle and thread in hands tbf. I think we should even pass a law that if anyones decides to join up with terrorist groups in future then they automatically lose their right to citizenship or where that is not possible, then they are tried, and if found guilty never see the light of day again in solitary confinement at best. I would go further but many on here would then lose it totally.
 

Mountain Climber

Active member
It really amazes me that people are determined to stick up for the human rights of terrorists who think it ok to sew people into suicide vests that go on to kill people. I don't believe she was thinking of the human rights of anyone with her needle and thread in hands tbf. I think we should even pass a law that if anyones decides to join up with terrorist groups in future then they automatically lose their right to citizenship or where that is not possible, then they are tried, and if found guilty never see the light of day again in solitary confinement at best. I would go further but many on here would then lose it totally.
Nobody with any ounce of compassion could ever condone the vicious and barbaric behaviours of those that inflict death and misery on innocents, ever. But in their own perverted sense of justice they would say western countries are killing their people on a daily basis by bombing and other armed actions, and in some way they have a point. Two wrongs do not make a right though. The solicitors and liberal minded MPs such as the failed 'mathematician' Diane Abbott etal will cry 'Bring them home, what about their human rights?' The reality is they care little themselves for their human rights and are more in it for 'virtue signalling' taking the moral high ground, and picking up a very large cheque at the tax payers expense. I am sure given the choice they would not wish for these people they get paid huge sums of money to represent to move into the house next door.
 
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Deleted

Active member
It really amazes me that people are determined to stick up for the human rights of terrorists who think it ok to sew people into suicide vests that go on to kill people. I don't believe she was thinking of the human rights of anyone with her needle and thread in hands tbf. I think we should even pass a law that if anyones decides to join up with terrorist groups in future then they automatically lose their right to citizenship or where that is not possible, then they are tried, and if found guilty never see the light of day again in solitary confinement at best. I would go further but many on here would then lose it totally.
So you think everyone involved with Extinction Rebellion should be stripped of citizenship?
 

coluka

Well-known member
I asked if you included Extinction Rebellion and you told me to grow up. So is it any terrorists or not? You’ve given contradictory answers. “See where it takes me”, calm down with the thinly veiled threats.
Yes grow up, your attempt at playing the race card was childish, extinction rebellion are not a terrorist group and to my knowledge have not committed terrorist acts. I have already stated any terrorists, read what i have written, not what you seem to have interpreted in your brain.
 

Corco65

Well-known member
Yes grow up, your attempt at playing the race card was childish, extinction rebellion are not a terrorist group and to my knowledge have not committed terrorist acts. I have already stated any terrorists, read what i have written, not what you seem to have interpreted in your brain.
What's the definition of a terrorist?

Have you heard her account in a court of law to decide if she fits the definition?
 
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