Locking down is going well for wales and scotland isn’t it ? England not imposing tougher measures has been proven to be correct . https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...s-rising-three-times-faster-englands-despite/
So Compulsory Vaccinations are Happening Then…..
- Thread starter Colin Warnek
- Start date
Stocko
Well-known member
Fook the minority old people and those with underlying health conditions??
Randy
Well-known member
Not for profit? Yeah right o.
Randy
Well-known member
Anti maskers isn't even a term
I've had 3 jabs now. Surely no more need for a mask? If you haven't had the booster that's no longer my problem.Ergh them masks are horrible things, majority wear the same one over and over againAnti maskers isn't even a term
and they clearly don’t work . The only ones that work are N95 masks , and even then it’s minimal .so many times I’ve heard ‘I’ve got covid and I’ve followed all the rules , I just don’t understand how I’ve got it’
BoroFur
Well-known member
Who are you talking to?
Is it beyond your skillset to use the reply button?
SmallTown
Well-known member
It is now. It’s a sad state of affairs when some people are compared to complain about something that can stop infecting others. It’s said that you also have to bash a charity to get your ill conceived point acrossAnti maskers isn't even a term
Scrote
Well-known member
And your peer-reviewed proof of this is..?
Anton_Berg
Well-known member
Try explaining this to someone who's operation is cancelled. 'Too bad, I'm scared of needles'
Randy
Well-known member
Which charity? Seems NHS Millions want nothing to do with her either.
Andy_W
Well-known member
your own study doesn't even prove what you think it does.You've quoted a 2015 study (based on 2011 data) comparing cloth masks to surgical masks (not to wearing nothing), which basically shows surgical masks work better, which they do.
The study compares the cloth masks against a control arm, but the control arm were using medical masks, cloth masks, or both. There was no control arm of none mask wearing, likely because it's a ludicrous comparison, and would be a complete waste of time, as anyone with half an idea knows masks will work, with varying degrees of success, in line with the quality of the mask.
"In the control arm, 170/458 (37%) used medical masks, 38/458 (8%) used cloth masks, and 245/458 (53%) used a combination of both medical and cloth masks during the study period. The remaining 1% either reported using a N95 respirator (n=3) or did not use any masks (n=2)."
Then this table shows that ILI (Influenza like iIlness) was the lowest attack rate of clinically respiratory illness, lab confirmed virus and ILL.
Also, where are the peer reviews citing this, stating cloth masks are not better than doing anything, and that "masks don't work"?
Nothing will work 100%, but it doesn't need to, as with any risk reduction measure, you take what you can get, and if it's not enough, you do more. But anything is better than nothing, and the better the mask, the more it will "work".
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We have provided the first clinical efficacy data of cloth masks, which suggest HCWs should not use cloth masks as protection against respiratory infection. Cloth masks resulted in significantly higher rates of infection than medical masks, and also performed worse than the control arm. The controls were HCWs who observed standard practice, which involved mask use in the majority, albeit with lower compliance than in the intervention arms. The control HCWs also used medical masks more often than cloth masks. When we analysed all mask-wearers including controls, the higher risk of cloth masks was seen for laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infection.
The trend for all outcomes showed the lowest rates of infection in the medical mask group and the highest rates in the cloth mask arm. The study design does not allow us to determine whether medical masks had efficacy or whether cloth masks were detrimental to HCWs by causing an increase in infection risk. Either possibility, or a combination of both effects, could explain our results. It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask. The physical properties of a cloth mask, reuse, the frequency and effectiveness of cleaning, and increased moisture retention, may potentially increase the infection risk for HCWs. The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,29 and modelling studies have quantified the contamination levels of masks.30 Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. For example, a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer. We also showed that filtration was extremely poor (almost 0%) for the cloth masks. Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention.31 These effects may be associated with cloth masks.
like I said , cloth masks don’t work, n95 ones do .
The trend for all outcomes showed the lowest rates of infection in the medical mask group and the highest rates in the cloth mask arm. The study design does not allow us to determine whether medical masks had efficacy or whether cloth masks were detrimental to HCWs by causing an increase in infection risk. Either possibility, or a combination of both effects, could explain our results. It is also unknown whether the rates of infection observed in the cloth mask arm are the same or higher than in HCWs who do not wear a mask, as almost all participants in the control arm used a mask. The physical properties of a cloth mask, reuse, the frequency and effectiveness of cleaning, and increased moisture retention, may potentially increase the infection risk for HCWs. The virus may survive on the surface of the facemasks,29 and modelling studies have quantified the contamination levels of masks.30 Self-contamination through repeated use and improper doffing is possible. For example, a contaminated cloth mask may transfer pathogen from the mask to the bare hands of the wearer. We also showed that filtration was extremely poor (almost 0%) for the cloth masks. Observations during SARS suggested double-masking and other practices increased the risk of infection because of moisture, liquid diffusion and pathogen retention.31 These effects may be associated with cloth masks.
like I said , cloth masks don’t work, n95 ones do .
You've quoted a 2015 study (based on 2011 data) comparing cloth masks to surgical masks (not to wearing nothing), which basically shows surgical masks work better, which they do.
The study compares the cloth masks against a control arm, but the control arm were using medical masks, cloth masks, or both. There was no control arm of none mask wearing, likely because it's a ludicrous comparison, and would be a complete waste of time, as anyone with half an idea knows masks will work, with varying degrees of success, in line with the quality of the mask.
"In the control arm, 170/458 (37%) used medical masks, 38/458 (8%) used cloth masks, and 245/458 (53%) used a combination of both medical and cloth masks during the study period. The remaining 1% either reported using a N95 respirator (n=3) or did not use any masks (n=2)."
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
I cant believe 2 years in people are still saying this kind of stuff and thinking they are making some kind of point.
Time to move on. Stay safe mate. Bye
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
Mate, with respect, I think this is where people are going wrong. They are directed to this ‘argument’.
It’s not always about people not agreeing with each other or being called wrong because they have a different opinion.
It’s nothing like that, as a lot of it is actually really clear cut and demonstrable by the real world evidence, datasets, research nd just simply the passage of time.
If scientist X makes a bold claim, such as the pandemic is over, or we have nearly reached herd immunity in April 2020, or there will be no second wave, and things actually don‘t play out like that, then there is your answer. It’s simply - it’s right or it’s wrong.
Of course some highly qualified scientists have different opinions. But ask yourself this, hand on heart, can you go back and look through the claims of the scientists I can guess that you are talking about, and list where they were provably wrong and then look at what they did about that. Did they discuss it, learn from it, tell you why they called it wrong and what they have done to better understand things? And what they now believe will happen? Or did they completely ignore their bold ‘no second wave, pandemic is over, it’s simply a load of false positives etc’ claims or worse still, delete their Twitter history where they made those claims, and replace them with more bold claims (that subsequently don’t play out, either). If you genuinely do that, you’ll start to see why so many of their peers ignore them now, and why so many people are angry at the deliberate spread of misinformation and the deliberate misrepresentation of data.
Andy_W
Well-known member
You didn't say cloth masks don't work, you said:
The above implies that any mask below N95 "does not work", but your study proved surgical masks work much better than the control group.
By saying "don't work" you're also trying to imply risk is binary, and it is not.
Then the study you quoted says all masks work, with increased success, the more you go up the protection rating, and there was a big increase in protection for surgical masks, over the control group, so surgical masks work more than the control group, so "the only ones that work" are not N95, your own study proves it. Your study did not compare cloth masks with no mask, or surgical masks with N95.
Surgical masks clearly help, the study proved it, risk is not binary.
But anyway, the study was on healthcare workers, and we don't use cloth masks for health care workers, they use clinical masks /surgical masks, where necessary, designed for healthcare settings. We've been doing this long before 2011, and with the influx of Covid that now covers a much wider area.
No face mask/covering: certainly doesn't "work", in any way whatsoever, nobody should be daft enough to test this for a clinical trial
Cloth mask/ face covering: works more than no mask, but not the ideal choice
Surgical/ healthcare mask: works more than a cloth mask, which is why healthcare staff wear them, rather than cloth masks, and it's also mandated.
N95: Will likely be better than a surgical mask
Respirator: Better than N95, which is why these are worn in higher risk instances
Face shield, gloves, gowns all add protection onto the above, which is why they're also used where risks are increased.
If you think your cloth mask does not "work", then I assume you wear an N95, at all locations where mask requirements are in place?
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Struggle with facts I see .
I cant believe 2 years in people are still saying this kind of stuff and thinking they are making some kind of point.
Time to move on. Stay safe mate. Bye
No I don’t wear masks anywhere . I’m exempt .