Starmers response to rishi pledges

Blf said:
No I wasn't. My vote goes to who I feel would make life better for me and my family. That was never going to be Corbyn for reasons I have gone over many times on here and won't be doing again.
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So you therefore feel that Theresa and Boris made life better for you and your family ?
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
I completely disagree that anything is better than this current government. That’s because if the main(only, let’s face it) opposition aren’t prepared to stand up for what is right and stand on a platform where the only thing they have is not being as bad as ‘them’, then you end up disenfranchising people even further, to the point where people just don’t care.

People are literally dying in hospital corridors and this bloke is yapping on about the private sector. His lying sidekick Reeves is currently touring the TV studios telling Gobsh*te Ferrari and anyone who’ll listen that the last few Labour manifestos weren’t costed. They’re f*cking LYING to you, me, us. And in plain sight. It’s disgusting.

I just can’t accept that this is the best a Labour leader can offer, can show us, can conjure up by way of oratory and HOPE. This ‘he’s keeping his powder dry’ stuff drives me up the wall. There’s no evidence to support that line of thought. He’s literally telling you this. Unless he’s lying, of course.
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Totally get where you are coming from and I agree to an extent.

I am a pragmatist, therefore I would prefer a Starmer Labour Government to whichever character is leading the tories come the next GE.
 
bumface said:
That just makes you sound like a Tory.
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Poor bumface still not over what happened to Jeremy. Years later and still looking backwards rather than forward.
Starmer is Labours future and I get the feeling he would rather the Tories sayed in power than see Starmer prove him wrong.
 
Blf said:
No and I never said that.
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But that is surely the logical conclusion of your statements ? ... you are a self confessed labour voter that took a decision not to, and you did so because you felt would be better choice for you and your family... that in turn helped bring about this government, whether you voted Tory or Lib Dem (unless you live in a con/lib marginal and voted lib dem ?). Surely you either regret that choice or were happy with it, at least in retrospect ? I am making some assumptions granted as I don't know who you voted for and in what constituency it was in.
 
m3t4tr0n said:
But that is surely the logical conclusion of your statements ? ... you are a self confessed labour voter that took a decision not to, and you did so because you felt would be better choice for you and your family... that in turn helped bring about this government, whether you voted Tory or Lib Dem (unless you live in a con/lib marginal and voted lib dem ?). Surely you either regret that choice or were happy with it, at least in retrospect ? I am making some assumptions granted as I don't know who you voted for and in what constituency it was in
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You are making a lot of assumptions yes. I said I had made the right decision Purely because bumface thinks that because if anyone has a differing opinion we are part of the problem. He's a bully boy.
 
Genuine questions:
Does anyone actually want to vote for Labour because of Starmer?
Does he inspire anyone?
Does anyone see what he stands for and thinks "that is what I stand for as well"?
Does anyone actually want him to be Prime Minister?

Please understand that this is a completely separate question to "Will you vote Labour at the next election?" or "Do you want him to be PM because it means Labour are in power?". All I see from anyone is that he is the best option for removing the Tories and I can understand that view but I really want to know if the situation was different, and we weren't in such a dire situation that we would have anyone as long as they aren't a Tory, whether anyone would choose for Starmer to be their leader.

I ask this because while I can appreciate the "best chance of winning" argument I really can't get behind people that will argue for Starmer just so Labour can win instead of arguing for what is best for the people of the country. If Starmer says "we won't spend our way out of trouble" I don't want people to just agree with him because he's the leader instead of saying "hang-on, we're in the **** because of a decade of under-spending so of course we need to increase spending". If the best interests of the people are to increase taxes on the rich or corporations I don't want people to agree just so he can win when that is exactly what we need because otherwise you are really arguing for a different party altogether. Labour should never be a centre-ground party. It should represent workers, of which there are far more of than the opposite. If it does that properly then it doesn't have to stand on the wrong side of the fence telling everyone that they'll come and join us as soon as they've finished at the party with the bankers, business leaders and Tories because we all know the more time people spend in that company the longer they stay and the more they'll forget about the rest of us.

We should never just accept that the least worst option is the best we can hope for. The other side don't. They managed to elect Boris, they got their way with Brexit and they even managed to put someone as useless as Truss in charge of the country while we are arguing that we should follow someone that doesn't even represent the people his party is supposed to represent.

I don't hate Starmer, I don't even dislike him. I just don't trust him and I don't believe he represents the people he should or that he will make the significant improvements that the country needs. I think he will win and I think it will be a bland period of nothingness where he is too afraid to make any changes that will really benefit the majority or offend the rich and we will just limp along without any improvement. At least some people will be able to say "we won and at least it's not the Tories". It'll be no different to the "imagine how bad it would have been under Corbyn" trope.
 
Nano said:
Genuine questions:
Does anyone actually want to vote for Labour because of Starmer?
Does he inspire anyone?
Does anyone see what he stands for and thinks "that is what I stand for as well"?
Does anyone actually want him to be Prime Minister?

Please understand that this is a completely separate question to "Will you vote Labour at the next election?" or "Do you want him to be PM because it means Labour are in power?". All I see from anyone is that he is the best option for removing the Tories and I can understand that view but I really want to know if the situation was different, and we weren't in such a dire situation that we would have anyone as long as they aren't a Tory, whether anyone would choose for Starmer to be their leader.

I ask this because while I can appreciate the "best chance of winning" argument I really can't get behind people that will argue for Starmer just so Labour can win instead of arguing for what is best for the people of the country. If Starmer says "we won't spend our way out of trouble" I don't want people to just agree with him because he's the leader instead of saying "hang-on, we're in the **** because of a decade of under-spending so of course we need to increase spending". If the best interests of the people are to increase taxes on the rich or corporations I don't want people to agree just so he can win when that is exactly what we need because otherwise you are really arguing for a different party altogether. Labour should never be a centre-ground party. It should represent workers, of which there are far more of than the opposite. If it does that properly then it doesn't have to stand on the wrong side of the fence telling everyone that they'll come and join us as soon as they've finished at the party with the bankers, business leaders and Tories because we all know the more time people spend in that company the longer they stay and the more they'll forget about the rest of us.

We should never just accept that the least worst option is the best we can hope for. The other side don't. They managed to elect Boris, they got their way with Brexit and they even managed to put someone as useless as Truss in charge of the country while we are arguing that we should follow someone that doesn't even represent the people his party is supposed to represent.

I don't hate Starmer, I don't even dislike him. I just don't trust him and I don't believe he represents the people he should or that he will make the significant improvements that the country needs. I think he will win and I think it will be a bland period of nothingness where he is too afraid to make any changes that will really benefit the majority or offend the rich and we will just limp along without any improvement. At least some people will be able to say "we won and at least it's not the Tories". It'll be no different to the "imagine how bad it would have been under Corbyn" trope.
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Can't disagree ... but what choice do we have ? We're stuck in the land of damned if we don't (vote Labour) and marginally less damned if we do. The joys of our political system - at the end of the day I have a small number of boxes to put a cross into and a knowledge that I live in a Lab/Con marginal, which essentially only ever gives me 2 choices and I can tell you this, I am never, ever putting a cross in the blue box.
 
Blf said:
You are making a lot of assumptions yes. I said I had made the right decision Purely because bumface thinks that because if anyone has a differing opinion we are part of the problem. He's a bully boy.
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Awww, bless. Did I hurt your feelings?
 
m3t4tr0n said:
Can't disagree ... but what choice do we have ? We're stuck in the land of damned if we don't (vote Labour) and marginally less damned if we do. The joys of our political system - at the end of the day I have a small number of boxes to put a cross into and a knowledge that I live in a Lab/Con marginal, which essentially only ever gives me 2 choices and I can tell you this, I am never, ever putting a cross in the blue box.
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But that's the same choice for nearly everybody. It's the system that's broken but I don't see any will to change it. Same Old Tory, same old labour propping up the same old system
 
Nano said:
Genuine questions:
Does anyone actually want to vote for Labour because of Starmer?
Does he inspire anyone?
Does anyone see what he stands for and thinks "that is what I stand for as well"?
Does anyone actually want him to be Prime Minister?

Please understand that this is a completely separate question to "Will you vote Labour at the next election?" or "Do you want him to be PM because it means Labour are in power?". All I see from anyone is that he is the best option for removing the Tories and I can understand that view but I really want to know if the situation was different, and we weren't in such a dire situation that we would have anyone as long as they aren't a Tory, whether anyone would choose for Starmer to be their leader.

I ask this because while I can appreciate the "best chance of winning" argument I really can't get behind people that will argue for Starmer just so Labour can win instead of arguing for what is best for the people of the country. If Starmer says "we won't spend our way out of trouble" I don't want people to just agree with him because he's the leader instead of saying "hang-on, we're in the **** because of a decade of under-spending so of course we need to increase spending". If the best interests of the people are to increase taxes on the rich or corporations I don't want people to agree just so he can win when that is exactly what we need because otherwise you are really arguing for a different party altogether. Labour should never be a centre-ground party. It should represent workers, of which there are far more of than the opposite. If it does that properly then it doesn't have to stand on the wrong side of the fence telling everyone that they'll come and join us as soon as they've finished at the party with the bankers, business leaders and Tories because we all know the more time people spend in that company the longer they stay and the more they'll forget about the rest of us.

We should never just accept that the least worst option is the best we can hope for. The other side don't. They managed to elect Boris, they got their way with Brexit and they even managed to put someone as useless as Truss in charge of the country while we are arguing that we should follow someone that doesn't even represent the people his party is supposed to represent.

I don't hate Starmer, I don't even dislike him. I just don't trust him and I don't believe he represents the people he should or that he will make the significant improvements that the country needs. I think he will win and I think it will be a bland period of nothingness where he is too afraid to make any changes that will really benefit the majority or offend the rich and we will just limp along without any improvement. At least some people will be able to say "we won and at least it's not the Tories". It'll be no different to the "imagine how bad it would have been under Corbyn" trope.
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Lots of my predomonantly Tory voting friends will be voting Labour because of Starmer (cue Tory Lite Jibe)

I will vote for him because he leads the Party I support and 1 person neither makes nor breaks that party.
I will then judge him personally on what he delivers.
 
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