Stoke City Freeze Prices

MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
because in some, not all, circumstances we are. Mine for example.
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In my situation we are more than twice as expensive as Stoke to sit in equivalent seats.

If my family of 5 were to sit in the South Stand next season it would cost £1752.

It would cost us £763 in Stoke.

That is for new applicants. Two adults, three children (11, 7 and 6)

My oldest would pay £75 and the two younger ones would be free at Stoke. It would cost £612 at Boro for their 3 tickets.


If we were renewals it would be slightly closer.

£1632 at Boro and £809 at Stoke. Still double at Boro.

How can you read that and think Boro aren't taking the ****.
 
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To all posters/members

If £500 is not our average ST price what is it?

£400?
£350?
£300?

Posters nearly always post over £600 prices for a Boro ST.

Please can we talk about average prices paid in the future by different clubs fans for the discussions to have real meanings.
 
Redwurzel said:
To all posters/members

If £500 is not our average ST price what is it?

£400?
£350?
£300?

Posters nearly always post over £600 prices for a Boro ST.

Please can we talk about average prices paid in the future by different clubs fans for the discussions to have real meanings.
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It's impossible to know what each clubs average price without knowing what the ratio of each concession category within a clubs sales and also the quantity of ST sold in each area of the ground. Obviously we don't have that information available for each club. Rob has provided info on this for Boro previously. Or at least some insight into it.

Like for like comparisons are the most sensible comparisons. I.e. what is a behind the goal ST price for an adult/OAP/young adult/child.
 
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Redwurzel said:
To all posters/members

If £500 is not our average ST price what is it?

£400?
£350?
£300?

Posters nearly always post over £600 prices for a Boro ST.

Please can we talk about average prices paid in the future by different clubs fans for the discussions to have real meanings.
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This is why cheapest adult price is usually what is used for comparison. It's impossible to know what the average is. A seat could be occupied by an adult, on over 65 or a child. You might be able to work out what our average was if you had all the info but you wouldn't have been able to work out what our average would have been if prices were different because that information doesn't exist.

You can either choose a like for like (behind the goal or halfway line etc), cheapest, most expensive or a scenario (family of 4, 2 adults, 2 children).

The reason posters say £600+ for a season ticket is because that is how much it costs an adult who isn't currently a season ticket holder to become one.
 
Nano - There are some people on here (who are not stupid) including you and me. You have found out in 2022/23 our ticket receipts were £8.8m. Would it be a decent guess to say £7m were ST sales and we had 20k STs?

Thats approximately £350 per ST holder in 2022/23 - average price paid

Two 6% rises takes that to £393 for 2024/25.

Maybe someone could do the same calculation for Stoke. My guess is that they have around 16k STs this season, looking at their attendances.

I am not a trained accountant so don't know how VAT on sales and purchases is dealt with, except MFC will be able to claim all the VAT back they pay from VAT collected from ticket sales for the UK Government.

We also know MFC offer 23 free drinks for some STs, plus interest free payments, plus discounted cup tickets for STs and a fully digitalised version of the ST for those that want that.

I am sure MFC are one of the more expensive clubs in the Championship, but I have doubts over the sustainability of some other clubs whose revenue is below MFC and who charge significantly less, average 21,000ish and pay wages in some cases above ours. As we have seen it can take several years for FFP problems to be discovered.
 
"The reason posters say £600+ for a season ticket is because that is how much it costs an adult who isn't currently a season ticket holder to become one."

However doing this excludes over 90% of STs bought @ MFC i.e. most are renewals and around 50% are concessions according to Rob Nichols and I am not sure if that includes Family Section sales.
 
Redwurzel said:
Nano - There are some people on here (who are not stupid) including you and me. You have found out in 2022/23 our ticket receipts were £8.8m. Would it be a decent guess to say £7m were ST sales and we had 20k STs?
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If you're trying to extrapolate from that, you have no chance. It'll include away fans and Cup matches; also you have at least five different ticket costs per age group per price bracket, just for home supporters. I'm sure the club have the data; I just don't think they do much with it beyond a 'finger in the air' call.
 
Redwurzel said:
I did post a few weeks I felt we should have frozen this season, but charging £349 for 23 games as Stoke do for an adult is too cheap.
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Too cheap? Or actually showing respect to your supporters in a cost of living crisis? Gibson should take note.
 
Redwurzel said:
To all posters/members

If £500 is not our average ST price what is it?

£400?
£350?
£300?

Posters nearly always post over £600 prices for a Boro ST.

Please can we talk about average prices paid in the future by different clubs fans for the discussions to have real meanings.
Click to expand...
People are talking about two different metrics.

There is OUR average price paid per ticket - which is distorted by concession/family zone and over 65 prices, which i believe Rob has said previously is low, and then there is the average of the cheapest "standard season ticket" which is the comparison people tend to do when comparing across clubs, of which ours is £510, and is disgustingly more expensive than our peers.
 
Redwurzel said:
Nano - There are some people on here (who are not stupid) including you and me. You have found out in 2022/23 our ticket receipts were £8.8m. Would it be a decent guess to say £7m were ST sales and we had 20k STs?

Thats approximately £350 per ST holder in 2022/23 - average price paid

Two 6% rises takes that to £393 for 2024/25.

Maybe someone could do the same calculation for Stoke. My guess is that they have around 16k STs this season, looking at their attendances.

I am not a trained accountant so don't know how VAT on sales and purchases is dealt with, except MFC will be able to claim all the VAT back they pay from VAT collected from ticket sales for the UK Government.

We also know MFC offer 23 free drinks for some STs, plus interest free payments, plus discounted cup tickets for STs and a fully digitalised version of the ST for those that want that.

I am sure MFC are one of the more expensive clubs in the Championship, but I have doubts over the sustainability of some other clubs whose revenue is below MFC and who charge significantly less, average 21,000ish and pay wages in some cases above ours. As we have seen it can take several years for FFP problems to be discovered.
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I don't think it would be a good guess because it includes cup games and I think that means our big paydays away to Man Utd and the following cup games vs Spurs and Chelsea would be included. Also, I assume this figure is our income excluding VAT so would need to be added back on to get the price paid by the fans.

I do know that Rob has provided the figures at some point and something like £11 per game was the (post-VAT) income for season ticket holder. That would be £253 or £304 inc. VAT. That would be £5.56m in the accounts which seems reasonable given the above.

Remember as well that an adult in the south paying £574 and an adult and a child in the GRFZ paying £574 means the average for the person in the south is £574 and the average in the GRFZ for the two is £287.
 
Redwurzel said:
Nano - There are some people on here (who are not stupid) including you and me. You have found out in 2022/23 our ticket receipts were £8.8m. Would it be a decent guess to say £7m were ST sales and we had 20k STs?

Thats approximately £350 per ST holder in 2022/23 - average price paid

Two 6% rises takes that to £393 for 2024/25.

Maybe someone could do the same calculation for Stoke. My guess is that they have around 16k STs this season, looking at their attendances.

I am not a trained accountant so don't know how VAT on sales and purchases is dealt with, except MFC will be able to claim all the VAT back they pay from VAT collected from ticket sales for the UK Government.

We also know MFC offer 23 free drinks for some STs, plus interest free payments, plus discounted cup tickets for STs and a fully digitalised version of the ST for those that want that.

I am sure MFC are one of the more expensive clubs in the Championship, but I have doubts over the sustainability of some other clubs whose revenue is below MFC and who charge significantly less, average 21,000ish and pay wages in some cases above ours. As we have seen it can take several years for FFP problems to be discovered.
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For ticket sales MFC are actually collecting VAT to pay over to HMRC on ticket sales. If you buy a season ticket for £600 then 20% or £100 will be VAT, the club keep the remaining £500.

The VAT paid over to HMRC is the amount of VAT on sales minus any VAT paid on vatable purchases on a quarterly basis.
 
Nano

So our average income per attendee is £11 plus VAT per game in 2022/23 - add say 12% to bring up to around £12 per average attendee next season or £276 plus VAT. (£331)? (source MFC/Rob Nichols)

Again a message to everyone this is the key figure, what the (mean) average Boro fan pays averaged across all age groups and families.

Its not cheap but its not the sort of figure that posters quote.

If Clubs don't charge a sustainable price what happens to their Club?

My local non league team charges £20 for a seat - it possible only £10 with a season ticket (£230) - its 5 tiers below the Championship. They have been in Administration in the past when they charged much less. Facilities are very poor and the standard of play and entertainment are generally poor. But they survive financially. The club is owned by the fans they decide the prices.
 
Kowalski said:
For ticket sales MFC are actually collecting VAT to pay over to HMRC on ticket sales. If you buy a season ticket for £600 then 20% or £100 will be VAT, the club keep the remaining £500.

The VAT paid over to HMRC is the amount of VAT on sales minus any VAT paid on vatable purchases on a quarterly basis.
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So just for general information - the ticket sales revenue figures on the accounts exclude VAT?
 
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MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
People are talking about two different metrics.

There is OUR average price paid per ticket - which is distorted by concession/family zone and over 65 prices, which i believe Rob has said previously is low, and then there is the average of the cheapest "standard season ticket" which is the comparison people tend to do when comparing across clubs, of which ours is £510, and is disgustingly more expensive than our peers.
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Thank you for your post - but they are not quoting a typical ST sale at MFC if concessions are the majority.

Do you agree?

I would use the word adjusted not distorted. Concession numbers are not low (family section sold out last season). No one has mentioned the Club give carers tickets out for free, I believe. The concessions must also be high for an average attendee revenue per ticket of £11 per match.
 
Redwurzel said:
Thank you for your post - but they are not quoting a typical ST sale at MFC if concessions are the majority.

Do you agree?

I would use the word adjusted not distorted. Concession numbers are not low (family section sold out last season). No one has mentioned the Club give carers tickets out for free, I believe. The concessions must also be high for an average attendee revenue per ticket of £11 per match.
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You are miles off the mark here.

Our entry level season tickets are the second highest in the league.
Our children's season tickets are the highest in the league

We have very limited concession structure. Most other clubs have tiered discounts for Juniors meaning u12s and younger generally get much cheaper tickets stadium wide. Stoke and West Brom doing £23 STs for example.

You are doing your best to muddy the waters bringing into the argument average cost of ST etc. But its just a smokescreen. The info is there right in front of you.

Jedi said his equivalent Season Ticket is £100 cheaper at Stoke as a single ST holder.

My family of 5 would be over £1000 cheaper at Stoke to sit behind the goal. ONE THOUSAND POUND.

These aren't small amounts of money people are twittering on about. These are vast differences.
 
Redwurzel said:
18MFC76

How much does it cost to go to the theatre in Middlesbrough? say Little Theatre or Town Hall?
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Are you on a wind up? You must be 🤣. I'll answer it as best I can just in case you're being serious...

I have absolutely no idea as I never go to the theatre.
 
Redwurzel said:
Thank you for your post - but they are not quoting a typical ST sale at MFC if concessions are the majority.

Do you agree?

I would use the word adjusted not distorted. Concession numbers are not low (family section sold out last season). No one has mentioned the Club give carers tickets out for free, I believe. The concessions must also be high for an average attendee revenue per ticket of £11 per match.
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Or the average is so low because people, especially working age adults, find the prices to be too high so don't go. The kids prices as a whole are reasonable (too generous in the GRFZ and too expensive in other areas), as are the over 65. It is the adults that aren't. We would raise the average income by attracting more adults to attend.
 
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