The booing of Jordan Henderson

BoroMart said:
Personally I feel that JWP should be skipped over as he is never ever going to be athletic enough to play regular england football. Skip over and go down to the 20-22 year old gorup and select one of those instead of Henderson.

Players will always be unhappy when they aren't picked, or their mates aren't picked, doesn't mean they are right though
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You’ve clearly not been watching him much this season. He looks leaner, faster and his mobility is massively improved. He’s more mobile than Henderson by a country mile.
 
Priv said:
You’ve clearly not been watching him much this season. He looks leaner, faster and his mobility is massively improved. He’s more mobile than Henderson by a country mile.
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I have only seen highlights, and he's playing well, but some players will never make it at international level, and I haven't seen anything in those snippets to make me feel he should be in there, I'll observe him more closely then and see if he's got in better physical shape. He's certainly never done anything in his previous appearances for England that make me feel he should be there but never say never.
 
1finny said:
What facts are you referring to?
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Below
BoroMart said:
Another England win, another series of posts by the usual suspects slating Southgate. Nothing changes, England fans are abysmal. These guys are just praying for a defeat to back up their prejudices, but still can't contain themselves if we win.
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- This negative thread is after yet another England win (fact 1)
- Despite it being another win, we have negativity aimed at the manager, just like after the last win, and the one before that, and the one before that (fact 2)
- there are characters on here that will always attack southgate, regardless, I say this becuase the facts are on here, the same people do attack him regardless. We can win 5-0 and instead of being balanced, they will hark back to who wasn't picked, or how poor the opposition did, or how 5-0 is the minimum he should win with the players available . (fact 3)
- Nothing changes - this is a pattern I've witnessed for 35 years watching england, Robson used to get the same nonsense thrown at him, utterly hounded until the summer of 1990, it was delusional and contemptable from the press and fans. (fact 4)
- the praying for defeat bit was my interpretation of some of these fans, I base that on the vigour they attack after a win and how they never let go of any defeat, regularly referencing those sparse defeats and putting all blame at the mangers door for them never the players or refs or just accepting the other team had better players.
 
Ahhhh - didn’t go that far in the post.

Must admit I’m not aware of much of what you say but, then again, I generally stay away from England footy performances - I don’t watch the games so don’t think I can comment.
 
BoroMart said:
You've painted an allusion that the rest of the squad will be unhappy, that's just something you've fantasised, opinions are largely meaningless without something grounded in reality to base it on.
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What are you even on about?!

I am saying that IF I WAS IN THAT POSITION then this is how I would be feeling based on the pure facts of Henderson now playing in an extremely poor league and still finding his way into Englands first 11.

I’m not painting any kind of allusion, and I’m not fantasising about anything.

The reality I am basing this on is that Henderson literally is playing in a really poor league right now (this is a fact), and he is still playing for England (also a fact)

Your responses are just bizarre.
 
A short career, it’s true. However, I doubt he’s desperately trying to scrape together money so he isn’t facing poverty in his later life.
I like him as a player, unfortunately he’s made a mockery of things he’s said before, he’s shown he’s greedy anarl.
 
Boro_Madrid said:
What are you even on about?!

I am saying that IF I WAS IN THAT POSITION then this is how I would be feeling based on the pure facts of Henderson now playing in an extremely poor league and still finding his way into Englands first 11.

I’m not painting any kind of allusion, and I’m not fantasising about anything.

The reality I am basing this on is that Henderson literally is playing in a really poor league right now (this is a fact), and he is still playing for England (also a fact)

Your responses are just bizarre.
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You said England first XI, but that wasn’t an England first XI on Friday. It was a B team.

Your response is just bizarre as is your allusion that you think your thoughts on the matter are reflective of England team members most of which have played alongside him for years and know his ability level
 
BoroMart said:
You said England first XI, but that wasn’t an England first XI on Friday. It was a B team.

Your response is just bizarre as is your allusion that you think your thoughts on the matter are reflective of England team members most of which have played alongside him for years and know his ability level
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You seem to be implying that unless players openly come out an express their frustration at being left out, behind Henderson, that it proves they won't be thinking it. How likely are they to do that? They'd probably not get picked again.
 
Picking any player not based on form is a dangerous path to go down morale wise as it shows that “not all animals are equal” esp when the likes of JWP has been told his form isn’t good enough to be selected.
 
BoroMart said:
You said England first XI, but that wasn’t an England first XI on Friday. It was a B team.

Your response is just bizarre as is your allusion that you think your thoughts on the matter are reflective of England team members most of which have played alongside him for years and know his ability level
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I don’t think your
BoroMart said:
You said England first XI, but that wasn’t an England first XI on Friday. It was a B team.

Your response is just bizarre as is your allusion that you think your thoughts on the matter are reflective of England team members most of which have played alongside him for years and know his ability level
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i really don’t think you are qualified to make that assumption that it was an England B team. Did Southgate come out in the press and say it was a B team? Your painting an allusion that these players are not considered to be in the A team.

You see how that ridiculous that sounds? That’s literally what you are saying to me. Obviously it was a B team, and I respect your opinion for thinking it. Maybe you should respect others and not double down on your absolutely ridiculous arguements.

….and for the record, Henderson started vs Ukraine in September which was our last competitive game. So I think it’s a fair assumption to say he is still considered to be in contention for the first 11. I’m sure you will probably disagree though.
 
Boro_Madrid said:
I don’t think your

i really don’t think you are qualified to make that assumption that it was an England B team. Did Southgate come out in the press and say it was a B team? Your painting an allusion that these players are not considered to be in the A team.

You see how that ridiculous that sounds? That’s literally what you are saying to me. Obviously it was a B team, and I respect your opinion for thinking it. Maybe you should respect others and not double down on your absolutely ridiculous arguements.

….and for the record, Henderson started vs Ukraine in September which was our last competitive game. So I think it’s a fair assumption to say he is still considered to be in contention for the first 11. I’m sure you will probably disagree though.
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He’s def in contention otherwise why pick him and go through all this to then not play him.
 
Cuthbert said:
You seem to be implying that unless players openly come out an express their frustration at being left out, behind Henderson, that it proves they won't be thinking it. How likely are they to do that? They'd probably not get picked again.
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I'm implying that people are jumping on a populist bandwagon without any idea what the players are thinking. I'm sure many of those players are good friends of Henderson after years of working with him, so some would likely feel aggrieved if he was bombed out.

Things are never as black and white as being made out here. The idea that all the players want him ejected is fanciful and I'll repeat, Friday was simply a friendly with a scratch side. I don't expect him in the team next match when it matters and I don't expect him to be in the squad in 10 months.

I know the Saudi league is weak, but he's been working there for what 2 months? His ability hasn't fallen off a cliff in 8-10 weeks with poor opposition. Yes after a year out there it will impact him and yes I agree with the questions over him being selected ethically, but he's always been a good pro, and I would suspect he trains really well, and you need people that do that around the group, and keep the young players honest. I suspect that is his role now, 10 mins to see out games, but primarily as a dressing room and training ground leader.
 
Jedi boro said:
Picking any player not based on form is a dangerous path to go down morale wise as it shows that “not all animals are equal” esp when the likes of JWP has been told his form isn’t good enough to be selected.
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To a level I agree, but dropping and picking players on short term form isn't a good tactic either. Especially if you are trying to build a club mentality. You need consistency of personalities and character in and around the dressing room, and it's fairly obvious that Henderson has been that strong leader in the group for some time. Maguire also falls in that category. Have we got younger players that can do that, not right now, but we need to find someone that can take that on.
 
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