Tom Lockyer

TeaCider said:
Two cardiac arrests on the pitch in six months.

He should absolutely be retiring, for his own good and for the good of everyone he plays with.
He's 29, so it's not it's that early for him.
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He didn't have a cardiac arrest at Wembley; it was widely reported as an episode of atrial fibrillation. While this can cause dizziness, lightheadedness and collapse, it is not a cardiac arrest.
If, as reported, he has had a cardiac arrest today, it's more likely to be ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia. These are arrest arrhythmias on which defibrillation works, and are therefore more survivable than other types of cardiac arrest. I say "as reported" as I've known media tangle it's terminology on this; I had one slightly famous patient who did suffer a cardiac arrest, and who told me that the papers kept telling him he'd had a heart attack, and his doctors kept telling him he hadn't.

Now, it would be a naive to dismiss a common cause or underlying issue; I don't suppose for a second this is coincidence. However, cardiac electrophysiology is complex, and sweeping generalizations are rarely helpful.

Erickson has a genuine cardiac arrest on the pitch, subsequently was fitted with an ICD, and has resumed his career without incident.
Muamba also had an ICD and retired; I don't know if that was through professional advice or choice, but maybe that won't be enough in Lockyer's case either.
There are also ablation procedures which can reduce reoccurrence, but I have no idea if they are relevant in this case, but each case is different.

My credentials are having a successful ablation myself, and 15 years acute cardiology nursing. I also did my doctorate on sedation practices during cardiac ablation. I just don't think there is enough information for the public to start telling Lockyer what to do.
 
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Frozen Horse said:
He didn't have a cardiac arrest at Wembley; it was widely reported as an episode of atrial fibrillation. While this can cause dizziness, lightheadedness and collapse, it is not a cardiac arrest.
If, as reported, he has had a cardiac arrest today, it's more likely to be ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia. These are arrest arrhythmias on which defibrillation works, and are therefore more survivable than other types of cardiac arrest. I say "as reported" as I've known media tangle it's terminology on this; I had one slightly famous patient who did suffer a cardiac arrest, and who told me that the papers kept telling him he'd had a heart attack, and his doctors kept telling him he hadn't.

Now, it would be a naive to dismiss a common cause or underlying issue; I don't suppose for a second this is coincidence. However, cardiac electrophysiology is complex, and sweeping generalizations are rarely helpful.

Erickson has a genuine cardiac arrest on the pitch, subsequently was fitted with an ICD, and has resumed his career without incident.
Muamba also had an ICD and retired; I don't know if that was through professional advice or choice, but maybe that won't be enough in Lockyer's case either.
There are also ablation procedures which can reduce reoccurrence, but I have no idea if they are relevant in this case, but each case is different.

My credentials are having a successful ablation myself, and 15 years acute cardiology nursing. I also did my doctorate on sedation practices during cardiac ablation. I just don't think there is enough information for the public to start telling Lockyer what to do.
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Don't come round here with your expertise, experts like @Juninhoburger and @BoroBourneNBred have decided he'll die on the pitch - no need for any further discussion.
 
Frozen Horse said:
He didn't have a cardiac arrest at Wembley; it was widely reported as an episode of atrial fibrillation. While this can cause dizziness, lightheadedness and collapse, it is not a cardiac arrest.
If, as reported, he has had a cardiac arrest today, it's more likely to be ventricular fibrillation or ventricular tachycardia. These are arrest arrhythmias on which defibrillation works, and are therefore more survivable than other types of cardiac arrest. I say "as reported" as I've known media tangle it's terminology on this; I had one slightly famous patient who did suffer a cardiac arrest, and who told me that the papers kept telling him he'd had a heart attack, and his doctors kept telling him he hadn't.

Now, it would be a naive to dismiss a common cause or underlying issue; I don't suppose for a second this is coincidence. However, cardiac electrophysiology is complex, and sweeping generalizations are rarely helpful.

Erickson has a genuine cardiac arrest on the pitch, subsequently was fitted with an ICD, and has resumed his career without incident.
Muamba also had an ICD and retired; I don't know if that was through professional advice or choice, but maybe that won't be enough in Lockyer's case either.
There are also ablation procedures which can reduce reoccurrence, but I have no idea if they are relevant in this case, but each case is different.

My credentials are having a successful ablation myself, and 15 years acute cardiology nursing. I also did my doctorate on sedation practices during cardiac ablation. I just don't think there is enough information for the public to start telling Lockyer what to do.
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What a great post.
 
BoroBourneNBred said:
The problem with you small minded people is this in a nutshell!

I don’t want him to play anymore
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You're a man / woman on a messageboard, so unless you're his wife what the **** has it got to do with you - you know less than 1% of the experts who'll decide whether he'll play again or not.

The problem with your small minded people is you think you're experts, when you're really not !
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
The problem with your small minded people is you think you're experts, when you're really not !
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I don't think he is suggesting he is an expert, he is expressing his opinion like everyone else on this board is entitled to. His opinion differs to yours.

On a side note some people i know were giving advice by hospital staff and some had different advice than others so just because one doctor said he was fine to carry on playing football i bet some other doctors in the profession may have advised against it but at the end f the day the choice is your own.
 
Fat_Dragon said:
I don't think he is suggesting he is an expert, he is expressing his opinion like everyone else on this board is entitled to. His opinion differs to yours.

On a side note some people i know were giving advice by hospital staff and some had different advice than others so just because one doctor said he was fine to carry on playing football i bet some other doctors in the profession may have advised against it but at the end f the day the choice is your own.
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He's made the decision that he plays again and he dies - that's what he's posted.

His opinion is based on nothing more than guesswork. Since when has expressing an opinion on someones life expectancy been an ok thing to do.? He's effectively saying that the doctors are wrong, and he as a layman, knows more than them.

Playing football is so much more complex than just two doctors having a different decision - there's all sorts of other people involved before he steps back on that pitch.

This isn't some bloke deciding he's OK to eat sausages despite a doctor telling him not to, there's loads of other factors in play before the bloke steps onto the pitch.
 
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The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
So what you're saying is "I know more than his cardiologist who cleared him to play football, and the insurance company who obviously agreed with that diagnosis and agreed he could keep playing at the highest level"

Do you keyboard doctors, sat in your pants in your mam's bedroom think he just waltzed back onto the pitch straight from hospital after saying "I'll be fine lads".
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I'm sat in my own bedroom thank you.


Though I am wearing my Mam's pants.
 
obviously not very pleasant seeing a fellow human suffering in such a public way. hopefully he will make a full recovery. but it ended up being a very positive experience in the way it brought everyone together at the ground, both sets of supporters, teams & management came together in a fantastic show of patience, respect & humanity that will live long with those that were there.
 
Would’ve loved him at the Boro. Hope he makes the right decision to knock it on th head for the sake of his and his family’s benefit.

Get better soon lad.
 
The_Lizards_Jumpers said:
He's made the decision that he plays again and he dies - that's what he's posted.

His opinion is based on nothing more than guesswork. Since when has expressing an opinion on someones life expectancy been an ok thing to do.? He's effectively saying that the doctors are wrong, and he as a layman, knows more than them.

Playing football is so much more complex than just two doctors having a different decision - there's all sorts of other people involved before he steps back on that pitch.

This isn't some bloke deciding he's OK to eat sausages despite a doctor telling him not to, there's loads of other factors in play before the bloke steps onto the pitch.
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Post brexit referendum world isn't it? Everyone's opinion is now equally valid, regardless of expertise.

I doubt the posters in question really do think they know more than cardiologists, but our culture now is to express your opinion with the same confidence as if you were an expert.

(ways the tories have ****ed up the country number #235).
 
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