VAR would've given a different result today

[winker]

I admit we were second best today, but even so games like this are won on margin calls and the truth is Sunderland got them both. Watching on telly there was no way that Dael Fry's tug was a Penalty. The pulling (what little there was) started at least 10 yards short of the penalty box and was a free kick at best.

Chuba Akpom was taken out from behind in the box in the 92nd minute in what was a stone wall penner but the ref waved play on.

Both of these incidents if they'd have happened in the Prem would have been given.

Its not sour grapes , its just that you can't un-invent TV slo-mo's and everyone at home can see we've effectively been 'robbed' of justice.

For me VAR can't come quick enough to the championship as well.

 

[atypical_boro]

I admit we were second best today, but even so games like this are won on margin calls and the truth is Sunderland got them both. Watching on telly there was no way that Dael Fry's tug was a Penalty. The pulling (what little there was) started at least 10 yards short of the penalty box and was a free kick at best.

Chuba Akpom was taken out from behind in the box in the 92nd minute in what was a stone wall penner but the ref waved play on.

Both of these incidents if they'd have happened in the Prem would have been given.

Its not sour grapes , its just that you can't un-invent TV slo-mo's and everyone at home can see we've effectively been 'robbed' of justice.

For me VAR can't come quick enough to the championship as well.

No thanks, we’ll be screwed over by it just as often as we profit from it.

Personally, I prefer celebrating goals properly rather than the laughable situations in world cups and top flight leagues where someone scores and then you just wait patiently for someone to say it is or isn’t allowed before you allow yourself to react in any way.

 

[Davey_C]

Errr no it wouldnt have we were 2nd best across the pitch

Still gutted about it, i think it was more wasting £35, sitting in the home end and being stuck in traffic in Sunderland an hour after the game thats peeved me off all the more

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

I’m not sure we or many others would be screwed over by it,…. It’s gotten pretty good at making the “correct” decision… it’s just that it drags a game out and ruins the game

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

Errr no it wouldnt have we were 2nd best across the pitch

Still gutted about it, i think it was more wasting £35, sitting in the home end and being stuck in traffic in Sunderland an hour after the game thats peeved me off all the more

I don’t think he means we would’ve won, but they’d not have got the penna..

 

[atypical_boro]

I’m not sure we or many others would be screwed over by it,…. It’s gotten pretty good at making the “correct” decision… it’s just that it drags a game out and ruins the game

I mean in comparison to the Championship today. There’d be penalties given that currently aren’t and goals disallowed that currently stand etc, for me it still doesn’t enhance the game because the game I fell in love with was a fast flowing sport where sitting about making decisions about “justice” wasn’t a priority, but where the better side usually wins and things usually even out over a 46 game season.

VAR doesn’t really change that, it just gives the folk on Sky even more to talk about to justify their existence. Managers still moan like fcuk when something doesn’t go their way.

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

I mean in comparison to the Championship today. There’d be penalties given that currently aren’t and goals disallowed that currently stand etc, for me it still doesn’t enhance the game because the game I fell in love with was a fast flowing sport where sitting about making decisions about “justice” wasn’t a priority, but where the better side usually wins and things usually even out over a 46 game season.

VAR doesn’t really change that, it just gives the folk on Sky even more to talk about to justify their existence. Managers still moan like fcuk when something doesn’t go their way.

I agree, it doesn’t enhance the game…. But with all the tv camera angles it became imperative that something was done because pundits were pulling bad decisions apart every game…

 

[Scrote]

But with all the tv camera angles it became imperative that something was done because pundits were pulling bad decisions apart every game…

...and the pundits are still pulling bad decisions apart every game. The Rashford goal last week, for instance. VAR hasn't removed contentious decisions from the game.

It’s gotten pretty good at making the “correct” decision

Has it? Really??

I used to post a thread jsyt about every week highlighting a contentious VAR decision. There is still far too much room for human-error. The fact that the laws of the game need tinkering with to improve VAR decision making makes it nothing more than a complex sideshow. Yes, it will improve, but it's still at the experimental stage.

There are also a ton of incorrect decisions made when VAR either isn't called upon or the on-field decision has already been made.

Foul throws and penalty encroachments aren't looked at when they would be very easy to deal with.

Offsides that are given when a 'goal' isn't scored don't get brought back when it turns out it wasn't offside after all.

VAR is not fit for football. Burn it and bin it. Then burn it some more.

 

[Nano]

...and the pundits are still pulling bad decisions apart every game. The Rashford goal last week, for instance. VAR hasn't removed contentious decisions from the game.


Has it? Really??

I used to post a thread jsyt about every week highlighting a contentious VAR decision. There is still far too much room for human-error. The fact that the laws of the game need tinkering with to improve VAR decision making makes it nothing more than a complex sideshow. Yes, it will improve, but it's still at the experimental stage.

There are also a ton of incorrect decisions made when VAR either isn't called upon or the on-field decision has already been made.

Foul throws and penalty encroachments aren't looked at when they would be very easy to deal with.

Offsides that are given when a 'goal' isn't scored don't get brought back when it turns out it wasn't offside after all.

VAR is not fit for football. Burn it and bin it. Then burn it some more.

The Rashford instance was actually an excellent example of how VAR works. It came to the correct decision when the on-field decision would have incorrectly disallowed it. I presume we all agree that the rule should be changed and it should have been offside but VAR got the decision correct.

Most of the issues we still see with VAR is bad refereeing. We are literally giving them all the information, several looks at it and different speeds and angles and they are still getting things wrong. That tells you that the standard of refereeing is nowhere near good enough and needs improving. Why would you think they are going to be better making those decisions in real time? They are just guessing.

Penalty encroachments are reviewed but they only get retaken if it affects the outcome. If it goes in directly then it doesn't matter. If there is a save and the keeper was off the line or the player the ball rebounds to was in the area it will be re-taken etc.

Offside technology is evolving. It won't be long before it is being called in real-time throughout the game, not just for goals.

 

[Funky_Chicken]

I admit we were second best today, but even so games like this are won on margin calls and the truth is Sunderland got them both. Watching on telly there was no way that Dael Fry's tug was a Penalty. The pulling (what little there was) started at least 10 yards short of the penalty box and was a free kick at best.

Chuba Akpom was taken out from behind in the box in the 92nd minute in what was a stone wall penner but the ref waved play on.

Both of these incidents if they'd have happened in the Prem would have been given.

Its not sour grapes , its just that you can't un-invent TV slo-mo's and everyone at home can see we've effectively been 'robbed' of justice.

For me VAR can't come quick enough to the championship as well.

Spot on - We were on the wrong end of some poor decisions on Sunday

 

[Cardiffdaffs]

Errr no it wouldnt have we were 2nd best across the pitch

Still gutted about it, i think it was more wasting £35, sitting in the home end and being stuck in traffic in Sunderland an hour after the game thats peeved me off all the more

You chose to sit in the home end? It was always going to end badly then for you.

 

[Marvanelli]

Personally, I prefer celebrating goals properly

I agree with this.

Managed to get home and watch the last half hour of the Arsenal v Utd game and when Arsenal scored the winner in 90th minute, some fans held back from celebrating knowing it was a tight offside call and waited until VAR confirmed before celebrating.

Yes the decision was correct in the end, but my goodness, that whole situation and waiting has just completely ruined the experience and thrill for some.

90th minute winners are what we all love in the sport. It's literally one of the best feelings you'll get when attending games, and yet it's ruined because of VAR.

 

[JM14]

VAR kills the game for anyone in the crowd. Give me the excitement that goals bring and accept that human error is part of the game any day over a 5 minute wait to see if a goal was 1mm offside

 

[festa5]

Most of the issues we still see with VAR is bad refereeing.

Yep.

Someone also needs to explain to them what a clear an obvious error is. If the ref has to watch a replay 10 times to make his mind up I can't see how it can possibly be clear and obvious!

Finally I'd change the offside law so it's only something like a players chest or hips or something need to be level (you could even have players wear chest straps as many already do, the technology must be there now to use something like that and have it done automatically?)

When the offside law was introduced I can't imagine anyone really intended it to apply to a nose or a toe being in an offside position. Some of the goals ruled out now are a farce, regardless of how correct the decision is to the letter of the law.

 

[changingman]

100% - been crying out for it since it was introduced in the Prem, there's simply far too much at risk financially in the Championship.

The outputs are irrelevant but we need to moving towards an improvement in % correct decisions across the board. At the moment it's a complete lottery as to which way a decision will go.

 

[Otto42]

Yep.

Someone also needs to explain to them what a clear an obvious error is. If the ref has to watch a replay 10 times to make his mind up I can't see how it can possibly be clear and obvious!

Finally I'd change the offside law so it's only something like a players chest or hips or something need to be level (you could even have players wear chest straps as many already do, the technology must be there now to use something like that and have it done automatically?)

When the offside law was introduced I can't imagine anyone really intended it to apply to a nose or a toe being in an offside position. Some of the goals ruled out now are a farce, regardless of how correct the decision is to the letter of the law.

Agree, most decisions are still subjective even with VAR. Clear and obvious error shouldn't necessarily have overturned yesterday's penalty as the on field referee gave it and there's debate as to whether there was contact on the line from Fry, even if initiated and exaggerated by Stewart. I'm also not sure Akpom's was a stonewall penalty if we take off our Boro spectacles?

Offside law was introduced to I think to stop 'goal hanging', as we called it at school . Didn't Wenger have a proposal that there should be clear daylight between the last defender and attacker for it to be offside, so removing the technicalities and issues with different camera angles?

 

[Nano]

Agree, most decisions are still subjective even with VAR. Clear and obvious error shouldn't necessarily have overturned yesterday's penalty as the on field referee gave it and there's debate as to whether there was contact on the line from Fry, even if initiated and exaggerated by Stewart. I'm also not sure Akpom's was a stonewall penalty if we take off our Boro spectacles?

Offside law was introduced to I think to stop 'goal hanging', as we called it at school . Didn't Wenger have a proposal that there should be clear daylight between the last defender and attacker for it to be offside, so removing the technicalities and issues with different camera angles?

Anything to do with changing where offside is measured from would have the same issue. The thing people don't like is marginal calls but wherever you move the bit that you measure there will still be marginal cases. I'm in the offside is a binary decision camp. You are either on or off, no matter how marginal it is. As long as there is a consistent methodology of deciding how that is determined then that is fine with me. Advances in technology will make it easier. The world cup used sensors in the ball to determine the exact moment the ball is kicked and AI to determine players positions. The Americans have a good way of determining touchdowns and the language used lets people understand it a bit better. They call it breaking the plane. If a mm of ball breaks the plane ( vertical wall on the goal line) then it is a touchdown. Offside is the same except that wall is dynamic depending on player positions. So you set the defensive plane and then if any of the attacking player's offside eligible body parts breaks the plane then they are offside. It's more logical than using lines on the floor.

 

[Hazzinho]

I hate VAR, ruins the game for me, part of football is the dodgy decisions we deserved to lose yesterday.

On a positive note it flagged areas we need to improve is we are aiming for the playoffs.

 

[FishofContemplation]

The Rashford instance was actually an excellent example of how VAR works. It came to the correct decision when the on-field decision would have incorrectly disallowed it. I presume we all agree that the rule should be changed and it should have been offside but VAR got the decision correct.

I hesitate to reopen this one as it's been done to death but that's factually incorrect, and I've rewatched it to make sure. The AR raised his flag but it was Stuart Atwell, as on-field Ref, who then gave the goal after a brief discussion with him, so it was the Ref who did the over-ruling on the "interfering" issue and the on-field decision was goal.

The on-field decision to give the goal wasn't reversed by VAR. "Correctly" I'd say in the sense that as the opinions from the various refs they've had on to debate it since are split down the middle it probably wasn't clearly and obviously wrong.

 

[festa5]

Anything to do with changing where offside is measured from would have the same issue. The thing people don't like is marginal calls but wherever you move the bit that you measure there will still be marginal cases. I'm in the offside is a binary decision camp. You are either on or off, no matter how marginal it is. As long as there is a consistent methodology of deciding how that is determined then that is fine with me. Advances in technology will make it easier. The world cup used sensors in the ball to determine the exact moment the ball is kicked and AI to determine players positions. The Americans have a good way of determining touchdowns and the language used lets people understand it a bit better. They call it breaking the plane. If a mm of ball breaks the plane ( vertical wall on the goal line) then it is a touchdown. Offside is the same except that wall is dynamic depending on player positions. So you set the defensive plane and then if any of the attacking player's offside eligible body parts breaks the plane then they are offside. It's more logical than using lines on the floor.

Well the other difference with touchdowns is that the ball is a fixed shape.

Human bodies have a lot of moving parts. You can be running side by side with someone, head level, chest level but at any given time your front foot might be ahead of theirs (and vice versa) depending on where you are in your stride.

Agree it's still got to be a binary decision but that's why I'd push for it be based on a fixed point on the body, such as the chest.

No player tries to time his run based on where the opponent's front foot is, it's just not realistic. You have a pretty good idea when your torso is level though.