Warnock was holding us back

[viv_andersons_nana]

I don’t think we had all our transfer business done at the start of the season.

Sporar, Hernandez and Siliki aside, you're right. And one of those has barely kicked a ball for Boro under either manager this season. The defenders you mentioned were fit at the time though.

 

[coluka]

I agree Cardiff - it was what my post above was meant to communicate.
Warnock did keep us up when we looked doomed and deserves real gratitude, but we were going backwards in recent months.
Wilder is a hugely encouraging appointment, Gibson deserves real credit.
We can be grateful to both managers, it is not binary.
There really is only one poster who can't let go. Warnock's biggest fan is Coluka, but he is happy the change has been made.
Which leaves the one I got naughty stepped for describing rather well.

Ha ha lol. I am not quite his biggest fan, I know what a lovely bloke he is though. Neil would tell you that himself mind (his biggest fan would of course be himself). However, I always stick up for those that I feel are getting too raw a time off some (just like i did with AK). However, on this occasion, and as a few may remember, I have a little bit more knowledge than many on here do regarding the man himself.

Some may remember that I wanted and suggested Wilder before a ball was kicked in the summer, were Neil to go, as did a few others. I like Neil and he really is wrongly pigeon holed, but he knows and to a degree courts, some of the unfair comments and attention tbf. The summer was the best time for change, for Neil too actually, but I don’t think the stars were quite aligned at that time for the club and Wilder (Last sentence is mainly just personal opinion).

 

[newyddion]

There's always an excuse.

Bola was injured. But he's injured for Wilder. But he was 'allowed' to sign Taylor. Taylor was offered to Warnock and Warnock turned him down? Warnock had to do without Dijksteel and Fry. But results weren't really any different when Warnock had them to when he didn't?

We are not as good with Dijksteel and Fry in the side. Chris Wilder bringing Taylor in has been a positive.

Yeah but he didn't have a striker. Akpom? Yeah but that was the recruitment team. But Warnock took the credit for it until he turned out to be poor? Yeah but he wasn't supported in the transfer market. He signed 24 players in three windows?

How much did he spend? Do we now have a new head of recruitment?

If it wasn't for referees we would've been 5th.

Injuries

But Warnock gave them dog's abuse from the sidelines, do you not think that had an effect?

Wilder complains at bad referee decisions, Warnock was more outspoken. Shouldn’t make a difference.

Yeah but the season was done when Fry got kicked against Blackburn and we didn't get a penalty. Do you not think it was odd that a season could end because we didn't get a penalty in January?

Injury to key players with no cover.. yes.

Yeah but he had to get rid of the big earners. Doesn't every manager have to work with players they know they will be moving on ASAP?

Every manager doesn’t have to deal with such a large turnover of players no.

But look at the squad he built and left for Wilder. I thought you said Warnock wasn't supported in the transfer market?

Like Mowbray built the core of a good squad from next to nothing. Coaching players up etc.

He wasn't, he wanted the Welsh striker instead but the club wouldn't pay the money. It had nothing to do with him wanting to go and play in Wales?

It wasn’t just Moore we missed out on (see new head of recruitment)

But if Tav had stayed fit we'd have finished 5th.

and Fry and Bolasie and Mendez Laing and Fletcher (6th.. maybe)

It's madness, some of the lengths people have gone to.

Disagreeing with you?

He did well to keep us up and deserved a crack at the next season. He had a very good 6-7 months and then it ran out of steam.

Yup

The team had started to go backwards under him, which is why he was replaced,

Wilder was our man from the Summer, we had to move or risk losing him to another club.

but left us in a better state than he found us.

Better than the start of the season too

Which is all you can ask of a manager. To my mind it's as simple as that.

Dead simple

 

[Johngannonsunderpants]

I think for the first time I can remember we got the transitions between managers (and the timings) correct. Woody was taking us down, the players were bereft of confidence. Warnock saved us and some of those players. Look at the difference in Howson, Mcnair, Fry, Bola, Dyksteel. They were awful, Bola couldn't even get in the Blackpool team at the time.

Warnock did what we needed, and as harsh as it seemed to some, the Wilder appointment is seemingly the right man at the right time. He's improving on Warnock failings (fitness, tactics, some man management issues) but most importantly alongside this he seems to be uniting the club with everyone seemingly pulling in the right direction.

Continuity is so important but is often ignored in football which has been the case with us, but this time we might have got it right.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Watmore is class, Akpom was 3rd/4th choice, made Britt captain and was trying to love him on.

I don’t think he signed Hall and only Kebano was really fit. We gambled and it didn’t pay off.

We are a better team with Dijksteel, Fry and Taylor starting.. it’s no coincidence.

Last season with our key players out, Barnsley was on par if not better/more effective.

It's just nonsense this. Excuse after excuse after excuse. The players he wasn't allowed to sign, the injuries only he had to deal with, the referees, the recruitment, the players that were signed were either (a) his signings if they turned out well or (b) not his signings if they didn't and on and on and on.

 

[newyddion]

Sporar, Hernandez and Siliki aside, you're right. And one of those has barely kicked a ball for Boro under either manager this season. The defenders you mentioned were fit at the time though.

Payero? Criticised for not playing him.. even when injured.

Peltier? Critisized for signing him.. even though crucial. (see slaw Bamba)

Olusanya? signing that was absolute zero risk

Taylor? criticised for not signing him!?!

 

[newyddion]

It's just nonsense this. Excuse after excuse after excuse. The players he wasn't allowed to sign, the injuries only he had to deal with, the referees, the recruitment, the players that were signed were either (a) his signings if they turned out well or (b) not his signings if they didn't and on and on and on.

Low risk signing during a transition (which was warnock’s 2nd job) we over achieved finishing 10th

 

[BoroMart]

Barnsley had some right canny players. Wilder came in and had Dijksteel, Fry & Bola

They didn't have a squad better than ours, regardless of having a few 'canny players'. That's the point.

 

[Nobby_Barnes]

You're wasting your time with this lot Newy, they will have the knives out for Wilder before you know it. Neil won 4 games on the bounce without conceding a goal despite massive injury problems to take us into the play off zone on 23rd Oct and they were all talking about promotion.... amazingly only 14 days later the same posters were calling him useless and he was gone. The epitome of fickle supporters

 

[newyddion]

I think for the first time I can remember we got the transitions between managers (and the timings) correct. Woody was taking us down, the players were bereft of confidence. Warnock saved us and some of those players. Look at the difference in Howson, Mcnair, Fry, Bola, Dyksteel. They were awful, Bola couldn't even get in the Blackpool team at the time.

Warnock did what we needed, and as harsh as it seemed to some, the Wilder appointment is seemingly the right man at the right time. He's improving on Warnock failings (fitness, tactics, some man management issues) but most importantly alongside this he seems to be uniting the club with everyone seemingly pulling in the right direction.

Continuity is so important but is often ignored in football which has been the case with us, but this time we might have got it right.

The summer would have been rough, no head of recruitment in place and especially having another managers signings thrust upon him. Then at the start with Dijksteel, Fry & Bola out. Best let Warnock take that on the chin.

looking to January now in a strong and stable position from which to build on.

 

[BoroMart]

We are not as good with Dijksteel and Fry in the side. Chris Wilder bringing Taylor in has been a positive.

Or in the lens of this thread, it was a mistake from Warnock to turn his nose up at Neil Taylor

How much did he spend? Do we now have a new head of recruitment?

In the lens of this thread Neil had 3 windows and while not having had as much as previous managers he did have good wages to spend and spent badly on ineffectual or by your recollection unfit players. Wilder has had zero to spend so far and has done better with the same players, although it's only 7 games so not definitive yet

Injuries

All clubs have injuries, and when those injured players returned we didn't play any better under warnock. He also by your recollection signed unfit players. Wilders summary is that our players were not at the fitness level he would expect when he arrived, that is down to warnock and an underlying factor in certain types of injury

Wilder complains at bad referee decisions, Warnock was more outspoken. Shouldn’t make a difference.

Shouldn't but it does, Wilder doesn't scream and shout for 90 mins, even in a pre-season friendly against a non-league team, one of the most embarrassing moments from a Boro manager for me

Injury to key players with no cover.. yes.

He had 3 windows to balance the squad and left us short in certain areas, that's on him

Every manager doesn’t have to deal with such a large turnover of players no.

He did have an exceptional number of overpayed players to watch their contracts run down and get rid. That one isn't his fault. I'm nothing but fair.

Like Mowbray built the core of a good squad from next to nothing. Coaching players up etc.

Next to nothing? He had some decent players, and had some money to spend if only on loans for prem quality players, he didn't chose well and I absolutely would not trust him to sign players on 3 year contracts for this club to be successful.

It wasn’t just Moore we missed out on (see new head of recruitment)

If your whole season is based on signing one player and you don't have a plan B, C or D then you have failed as a manager. I'd also argue that our failure to sign certain players is down to the concept of having to deal with playing for Warnock. He isn't a manager that quality players want to play for.

 

[Nobby_Barnes]

looking to January now in a strong and stable position from which to build on.

'Strong and Stable' I'm sure I've heard that somewhere before ? What could possibly go wrong

 

[Johngannonsunderpants]

Neil Warnock helped massively in getting us where we are. He was box office for me, I found him really interesting and liked him a lot. The things I didn't like was his criticism of players he didn't sign and a chasm opening up with Bauser Scott and the like. However he's a 71 / 72 year old bloke, and I'm afraid being a cantankerous old b***r is hopefully coming to all of us.

I'm proud he managed the club I support and broke the record for most games managed while with us. The man had many positives as did his backroom staff (I was massively surprised by Blackwell) and we should look back positively at his tenure.

There's only one Neil Warnock, but now it's Chrissy Wilders Red & White army. UTB.

 

[Rofesleg]

You're wasting your time with this lot Newy, they will have the knives out for Wilder before you know it. Neil won 4 games on the bounce without conceding a goal despite massive injury problems to take us into the play off zone on 23rd Oct and they were all talking about promotion.... amazingly only 14 days later the same posters were calling him useless and he was gone. The epitome of fickle supporters

I'm pretty sure it was 3 games, not 4 -against the bottom 3 teams at the time. It was great but even then most people wanted to see it continue against even mid-table teams before getting too excited. Unfortunately we then lost to Luton and Birmingham. It was time to go.

 

[Cress]

On the radio tonight

BBC Radio 5 Live - 5 Live Sport, 72+, 06/01/2022

Aaron Paul and guests look ahead to FA Cup third round weekend.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[BoroFur]

On the radio tonight

BBC Radio 5 Live - 5 Live Sport, 72+, 06/01/2022

Aaron Paul and guests look ahead to FA Cup third round weekend.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks but I shall give that a miss.

 

[Erimus74]

Sorry to say Nobby but you were absolutely wrong on Mr Neil Warnock. Chrissy Wilders Red and White Army.

Yep so glad he managed us, always wanted that, he saved us from certain relegation & whatever else was in store, didnt want him gone but agree its far more enjoyable & as you say, we look one of the better teams in the championship & long may it continue

 

[Jedi boro]

Wilder complains at bad referee decisions,

No wilder rightfully reacts to a shocking decision that has impacted his side.

but he does it when it’s justified and he did it in a rational constructive manner.

it’s night and day to the insane rants every single week from warnock.

 

[newyddion]

No wilder rightfully reacts to a shocking decision that has impacted his side.

but he does it when it’s justified and he did it in a rational constructive manner.

it’s night and day to the insane rants every single week from warnock.

I don’t think they were insane rants at all.. he spoke sense regarding the failings of championship level officials and refereeing.

 

[Jedi boro]

Back to the OP - one thing that struck me the other day is that after years of being an also ran, written off by almost everyone in this league we are now see as a real contender.

We are NOW back in the conversation

we are back talking to the likes of Arsenal about their young players ( warnock ruled this avenue out completely) we are attracting young hungry players and they want to come here and play for wilder.

wilder has huge respect among today’s top managers. He’s not yesterday’s man he’s a young innovative coach that has proven his worth at the highest level.