J_Boro_Clock
Member
Nothing by the looks of it
I really don't know what we'll do.We were rumoured to have about 5m FFP headroom last summer for a CF we didn't sign. Teh sale of Rogers was too late in teh window to adjust our transfer policy and make a replacement signing. Plus the club doesn't want to pay big in the January wndow due to perceived over pricing. Prior to that we were maxed out due to previous expenditures such as Britts fee and wages. So the club has kept its powder dry once and been backed into a corner once.
I'm sure he doesn't want us to run at a loss, but investing in playing assets is just that, investment. If done well you make a profit. We seem to be doing a good job of player investment as a business strategy in the last couple of years.
What we do know is Gibson does not take any money out of the club. If hypothetically we sold Hackney and Rav for 45m+, the club would have zero debts, in fact it would have a cash surplus. But it would be poor on playing assets. It wouldn't make business, football or any sense not to spend that money and history of Gibsons ownership says he absolutely would spend most of that 45m surplus.
Financing? the club would have it's own cash surplus at such sales, but also has the ability to raise capital through loans like many clubs do. The fact the club now has relatively little debt and might get a massive cash influx means that Gibson wouldn't need to put more money in anyway. 2 sales for 45m+ would be self financing for a big player investment and be allowed under FFP. I think you are a lonely voice if you believe we are going to sell Rav and Hackney and spend buttons on squad investment.
You're missing all the insane contacts we had in place and off the top of my head the £14m we blew on bang average players like Saville and Flint in 18/19, we've written off loads of players that cost us loads ie Assombalonga & Fletcher.I really don't know what we'll do.
We haven't spent more than £5m on a single player for over 5 years. Lath and Payero have been our biggest signings in that timeframe.
We've had plenty of big sales in that time.
18/19
Traore - £18m
Gibson - £15m
19/20
Braithwaite + Randolph - £10m
20/21
N/A
21/22
N/A
22/23
Tavernier - £11m
Spence - £13m
23/24
Akpom - £12
Rogers - Circa £10m
We have had headroom for the last few windows. As you know, we could have taken a £10m striker on a 5 year contract with annual amortisation value of £2m per annum, There's definitely been headroom to do that.
We haven't for one of 3 reasons in my opinion:
a) Gibson is unwilling to pump that amount of his own money in to fund it - which he would have to do because despite the big sales we are still operating at a loss.
b) We haven't found the correct player
c) It doesn't fit our transfer policy
I find it hard to believe we haven't been able to find a striker in the last 12-18 months. We knew needed one. Our recent history suggest we aren't a club that spends big on signings any more. I believe it's a combination of reason a and reason c. Gibbo has already injected a lot of capital recently to remove a lot of debt. Is he willing to pump in more money to fund transfers? Who knows.
I think Hackney will leave in the summer for a big fee but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that we will immediately reinvest on high value signings other than hope.
The ffp and losses were massively impacted by the Gary monk splurge.I really don't know what we'll do.
We haven't spent more than £5m on a single player for over 5 years. Lath and Payero have been our biggest signings in that timeframe.
We've had plenty of big sales in that time.
18/19
Traore - £18m
Gibson - £15m
19/20
Braithwaite + Randolph - £10m
20/21
N/A
21/22
N/A
22/23
Tavernier - £11m
Spence - £13m
23/24
Akpom - £12
Rogers - Circa £10m
We have had headroom for the last few windows. As you know, we could have taken a £10m striker on a 5 year contract with annual amortisation value of £2m per annum, There's definitely been headroom to do that.
We haven't for one of 3 reasons in my opinion:
a) Gibson is unwilling to pump that amount of his own money in to fund it - which he would have to do because despite the big sales we are still operating at a loss.
b) We haven't found the correct player
c) It doesn't fit our transfer policy
I find it hard to believe we haven't been able to find a striker in the last 12-18 months. We knew needed one. Our recent history suggest we aren't a club that spends big on signings any more. I believe it's a combination of reason a and reason c. Gibbo has already injected a lot of capital recently to remove a lot of debt. Is he willing to pump in more money to fund transfers? Who knows.
I think Hackney will leave in the summer for a big fee but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that we will immediately reinvest on high value signings other than hope.
I'm not expecting that anyone knows the answer to this, but it would be interesting to know if anyone has the information.
How much did our loan signings cost us last season?
Did we pay loan fees, and if so, what were they? What percentages of wages did we pay? I read Steffan was the highest paid player in the Championship on 60-80k/week, but I'd be amazed if we were paying all of that.
We did find the players we were willing to spend on.I really don't know what we'll do.
We haven't spent more than £5m on a single player for over 5 years. Lath and Payero have been our biggest signings in that timeframe.
We've had plenty of big sales in that time.
18/19
Traore - £18m
Gibson - £15m
19/20
Braithwaite + Randolph - £10m
20/21
N/A
21/22
N/A
22/23
Tavernier - £11m
Spence - £13m
23/24
Akpom - £12
Rogers - Circa £10m
We have had headroom for the last few windows. As you know, we could have taken a £10m striker on a 5 year contract with annual amortisation value of £2m per annum, There's definitely been headroom to do that.
We haven't for one of 3 reasons in my opinion:
a) Gibson is unwilling to pump that amount of his own money in to fund it - which he would have to do because despite the big sales we are still operating at a loss.
b) We haven't found the correct player
c) It doesn't fit our transfer policy
I find it hard to believe we haven't been able to find a striker in the last 12-18 months. We knew needed one. Our recent history suggest we aren't a club that spends big on signings any more. I believe it's a combination of reason a and reason c. Gibbo has already injected a lot of capital recently to remove a lot of debt. Is he willing to pump in more money to fund transfers? Who knows.
I think Hackney will leave in the summer for a big fee but there's absolutely nothing to suggest that we will immediately reinvest on high value signings other than hope.
I didn't miss them. I said in the last 5 years. They were 6 years ago.You're missing all the insane contacts we had in place and off the top of my head the £14m we blew on bang average players like Saville and Flint in 18/19, we've written off loads of players that cost us loads ie Assombalonga & Fletcher.
Well definitely have more flexibility this summer, short term pain last window rather than pay stupid desperation transfer fees.
I think that 7m was gazumping our 6m max valuation. 6m were the reports at the time. Should Leicester go up, I'm sure he'll be available again, he's nowhere near prem ready. His value will have dropped from the fee Leicester paid too due to a year of inactivity. I wouldn't be surprised if he's on our shopping list again this summer. Jay Stansfield is a decent alternative. 11 league goals in a rubbish Birmingham side, doing shifts at 10 and both wings as well as CF. 21 year old. Anyone playing regularly under the age of 21 has ability and potential. Anyone scoring regularly has excellent potential.Remember the rumour was that we were in the market to buy Tom Cannon in the summer.
Looks like we were gazumped by Leicester - spending £7m for a guy to become their 4th choice striker.
I like to think our owner is still ambitious but it's a tough market to operate in.
At least we would contemplate spending £7m - very few championship clubs would be.
At least we aren't Sunderland
Britt was under contract during the 20/21 season.I didn't miss them. I said in the last 5 years. They were 6 years ago.
Assambalonga dropped off FFP 2 years ago
Flint we got a resale on and dropped off FFP ages ago
We've had plenty of FFP headroom over the last 12-18 months
Yes but were calculating one year of Britt/Fletcher amortisation transfer cost + wages versus 2 or 3 years in the previous summers. Have you just made that loyalty bonus up?That means he still appeared on FFP calculations at the end of the 22/23 season. (20/21 + 21/22 + 22/23). This season 23/24 is the first where we have been able to budget without Britt (and Fletchers) significant costs. In last summers FFP calculation Britt would have alone accounted for about 3.75m transfer fee + 2m final year wages + 'loyalty' bonus + 25% of his agent fees, circa 6m. Fletcher would likely be another 2m.
I think you can see reasons for that which may be changing.Point being, just because we can spend that money and stay within FFP, doesn't mean we will. The club still has no dosh so any money we spend has to be financed by Gibbo. He's shown no signs over the few years of doing that (even though he could).
That's the thing isn't it. None of us really know.I think you can see reasons for that which may be changing.
Summer 21. Warnock in charge after a poor end to the previous season despite a lot of high cost loans. Monk (& Pulis) boom still on the books. Scott comes in as HoF. Net spend of around £5m.
Winter 22. Wilder in charge, going well but Gibson clearly decides that we're not close enough to spend big in the winter. This leads in part to a massive breakdown between Wilder and the club.
Summer 22. Tav and Spence sold. Twin track strategy of buying development players alongside loans and experienced free transfers. Wilder is still sulking and will shortly be sacked.
winter 23. Prestige loans almost get us to promotion.
Summer 23, club at a bit of a crossroads. We decide to spend the transfer budget gained from selling Akpom and Payero on development players. We could have stuck with prestige loans again and spent whatever it took to bring in a marque striker but we went down the "building foundations" route.
Winter 23. Continuing incremental improvements and using loans to plug a never-ending injury crisis. Unexpected sales of Rogers and Crooks happens too late for us to spend the money.
I think we could have spent (fairly) big last summer but we went down a different route. It all depends on what Gibson thinks of our promotion chances in the summer. Assuming we end the season 7th-8th, I can see him releasing funds over and above what we make in transfers and I do think we have flagged next season as, financially, the best time to spend. As you say, whether or not we will is a whole other issue. My guess is that he will have a "warchest" but that we might use half of it in the summer and the rest in the winter if we're in the top 4.
I wouldn't have predicted any of the players we bought last summer and have no idea who our top targets are this summer. I'm assuming we're shopping primarily for Seny Dieng types rather than yet more punts but I don't actually know.
You said he has been off for two seasons, I was simply correcting that. Yes it’s a declining cost but ~6m is a significant amount of a championship budget.Yes but were calculating one year of Britt/Fletcher amortisation transfer cost + wages versus 2 or 3 years in the previous summers. Have you just made that loyalty bonus up?
As already discussed we were usurped in the summer and couldn’t find a player that fitted in the small January window. I’d rather we waited than jumped into another Britt situation.You are right, our FFP headroom now is the highest it's ever been. There's no denying that. But we had plenty of headroom last summer and even more in January and didn't use it.
He’s just written about 70m in debt off. His financing off the club has been good, great. He’s kept his powder dry to get rid of the Monk failures.The club still has no dosh so any money we spend has to be financed by Gibbo. He's shown no signs over the few years of doing that (even though he could).
The noises from Carrick are repeatedly about quality not numbers required in the summer. If it’s a total of 10 in though, 4 or 5 of those will really be projectsI think you can see reasons for that which may be changing.
Summer 21. Warnock in charge after a poor end to the previous season despite a lot of high cost loans. Monk (& Pulis) boom still on the books. Scott comes in as HoF. Net spend of around £5m.
Winter 22. Wilder in charge, going well but Gibson clearly decides that we're not close enough to spend big in the winter. This leads in part to a massive breakdown between Wilder and the club.
Summer 22. Tav and Spence sold. Twin track strategy of buying development players alongside loans and experienced free transfers. Wilder is still sulking and will shortly be sacked.
winter 23. Prestige loans almost get us to promotion.
Summer 23, club at a bit of a crossroads. We decide to spend the transfer budget gained from selling Akpom and Payero on development players. We could have stuck with prestige loans again and spent whatever it took to bring in a marque striker but we went down the "building foundations" route.
Winter 23. Continuing incremental improvements and using loans to plug a never-ending injury crisis. Unexpected sales of Rogers and Crooks happens too late for us to spend the money.
I think we could have spent (fairly) big last summer but we went down a different route. It all depends on what Gibson thinks of our promotion chances in the summer. Assuming we end the season 7th-8th, I can see him releasing funds over and above what we make in transfers and I do think we have flagged next season as, financially, the best time to spend. As you say, whether or not we will is a whole other issue. My guess is that he will have a "warchest" but that we might use half of it in the summer and the rest in the winter if we're in the top 4.
I wouldn't have predicted any of the players we bought last summer and have no idea who our top targets are this summer. I'm assuming we're shopping primarily for Seny Dieng types rather than yet more punts but I don't actually know.
The comparison was purely to highlight the difference between having the option to spend and being willing or being able to afford to spend. No other reason.As for the personal finance comparison, I leave that to government ministers trying to pretend to pull the wool over voters eyes. Running a business isn’t the same as running personal finance as it’s really unlikely a household can spend 1.5m and turn it into 16m in 6 months. It’s a weak comparison
It’s been well reported that Tom cannon was our number one choice. Then Leicester's name came in quite late. January, we hoped to hang on to him, it was a late offer, it messed our planning up. Yes we chose not to spend in January. I’ve seen multiple people from the club talking about poor value in January before.The comparison was purely to highlight the difference between having the option to spend and being willing or being able to afford to spend. No other reason.
We could spend more than we did last season but for whatever reason we didn't. (Any reason you put forward is result speculation. It could be because we didn't find the right man, it could be that we offers declined, it could be because Gibbo is unwilling, none of us on this board know)
We didn't have to wait for the Rogers sale to spend in January. We already had the FFP scope. We'd had 4 months to find a striker. We either failed to find an available one, or chose not to spend the money. We needed a striker irrelevant of whether Rogers stayed or was sold.
We can spend even more this season, it's yet to be seen whether we do.
We've been "close" to big money signings loads of times in recent years but not gone through with any of them. A cynic might say that those rumours are there to show that the club has ambition, to shift tickets and to stop people complaining about us not trying to buy players. Every window we are linked to a big money signing and we don't make one looks more and more deliberate. If we were in the market for a £10m striker 4 windows ago then why have we still not bought one?Remember the rumour was that we were in the market to buy Tom Cannon in the summer.
Looks like we were gazumped by Leicester - spending £7m for a guy to become their 4th choice striker.
I like to think our owner is still ambitious but it's a tough market to operate in.
At least we would contemplate spending £7m - very few championship clubs would be.
At least we aren't Sunderland