Wolves forcing a Vote on VAR Future

Ex Footy Legs

Ex Footy Legs

Well-known member
Early June premier league meeting will debate and decide on VARs future with 13 votes required to halt VARs use.

I hope it’s stopped - I was all for it but it has been a disaster from the referees who are wholly responsible for its serious failure.

The body of people running and interpreting VIDEO Assistance have mishandled it in a serious and damaging manner for the game in its entirety IMHO.
 
Football has always had a habit of allowing people, who really don’t understand football, to convince people who understand football pretty well, to allow people who don’t have a great understanding of football, to control football.

In other words…if money can be made by fixing what isn’t broke….we’ll do it
 
I don’t like the hold ups it causes - i guess a return to moaning about refs being crap an favouring the big clubs is more fun though 🙂
 
Goal line technology works. It's a fixed point on the pitch and the ball is over the line or not. Anything subjective is exactly that and so VAR shouldn't be used for any decisions like this. I'd include offside in this as deciding in which frame the ball was passed is also subjective.
 
I have zero problems with VAR, but the implementation is the problem, but a lot of that problem is also caused by absolutely stupid rules.

The system (VAR, implementation and the rules) is just so poorly ran it's beyond laughable, if it was a business it would have went broke within a few months.

It's simple, I've thought of about 5-10 ideas in 2 minutes:
If you need to get the lines out for offside, do any kind of zooming, or it's going to take longer than a couple of seconds, forget it, stick with the original decision. Use AI to make the decisions, it shouldn't need a person on a computer looking at a screen.
If you need to get the lines out and 25 replays for a decision, forget it, move on, stick with the original decision.
Change the offside law to make decisions easier, faster and more pro-attacking.
For offsides, any part of the body can keep someone onside, i.e to be offside you need to be completely beyond the defender with every body part.
Make offside simpler, if someone is ahead of the ball they're offside, no matter where they are on the pitch, same with someone can play anyone onside, from anywhere, don't make it subjective who is interfering or not, this is a massive can of worms.
The above should put a stop to players standing offside for first phase, who then come onside for second phase, it's daft.
Stop making refs go over to a tiny screen, which will be practically impossible to see. If something is obvious to intervene and overturn, then intervene and overturn. Man up you're sat behind a computer, if you can't do it let AI do it.
Do away with linesmen they're just not needed anymore, or don't let them do offsides, play on until the ref gets a buzzer saying something is offside or the ball has gone out the side or whatever.
It's 100% impossible to look at where the ball is being kicked, and where the striker and defender are at this time, the sooner people realise this the better.
If people get injured in the corner and are playing everyone onside, tough, maybe allow players to be basically treated in play like in rugby.
Get harsh on time wasting, diving, swearing/ dissent, getting in the refs face, cheating of any kind, it all needs cutting out, and the game will be much better for it, like every other game is.
Allow 2 appeals per game for the manager of each side, if they get the decision correct, they keep the appeal.
 
Wolves actually polled their fans before making their intervention. This is how FSA reported it.
If VAR has considerably harmed the live spectacle of watching football from the stands then surely it is not fit for purpose.

Wolverhampton Wanderers will trigger a vote on VAR at next month’s Premier League Annual General Meeting. The club are calling for VAR to be removed entirely in time for the start of the 2024/25 season.

Wolves said VAR’s introduction was made “in good faith” by all parties but concluded that it had “led to numerous unintended negative consequences that are damaging the relationship between fans and football”.

The club were also praised by their supporters’ trust for engaging their fanbase in the process which has led to the club tabling a resolution at the league’s annual meeting, saying: “We are pleased the club have listened to concerns raised by the supporters trust, focus groups and the wider fan base and taken the issue to the Premier League.”

FSA have polled supporters for their views on VAR and video technology since 2017, and while fans were broadly in favour of its introduction, the experience has soured the vast majority on video technology, as this Twitter thread details. A snap poll this week also showed widespread support for Wolves' position.

From FSA Twitter - "Almost 10,000 fans took part in the FSA’s National 2023 Supporters’ Survey - only one in 20 (5.5%) of fans who had experienced VAR in stadiums rated their experience of it as good or very good."
 
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fmttmadmin said:
Wolves actually polled their fans before making their intervention. This is how FSA reported it.
If VAR has considerably harmed the live spectacle of watching football from the stands then surely it is not fit for purpose.

Wolverhampton Wanderers will trigger a vote on VAR at next month’s Premier League Annual General Meeting. The club are calling for VAR to be removed entirely in time for the start of the 2024/25 season.

Wolves said VAR’s introduction was made “in good faith” by all parties but concluded that it had “led to numerous unintended negative consequences that are damaging the relationship between fans and football”.

The club were also praised by their supporters’ trust for engaging their fanbase in the process which has led to the club tabling a resolution at the league’s annual meeting, saying: “We are pleased the club have listened to concerns raised by the supporters trust, focus groups and the wider fan base and taken the issue to the Premier League.”

FSA have polled supporters for their views on VAR and video technology since 2017, and while fans were broadly in favour of its introduction, the experience has soured the vast majority on video technology, as this Twitter thread details. A snap poll this week also showed widespread support for Wolves' position.

From FSA Twitter - "Almost 10,000 fans took part in the FSA’s National 2023 Supporters’ Survey - only one in 20 (5.5%) of fans who had experienced VAR in stadiums rated their experience of it as good or very good."
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If all clubs went with the same method of voting based on their fans' views then VAR would be history.



But we all know that won't happen.
 
B_G said:
If all clubs went with the same method of voting based on their fans' views then VAR would be history.



But we all know that won't happen.
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The twitter poll was conducted by Football Supporters Assiciation and only for fans who have actually witnessed VAR. Not Wolves fans but fans of all clubs.
10. 000 is a really good number and considerably strengthens the argument that VAR is damaging the live spectacle of the sport.
 
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People hate change, they are resistant to it

Read up on the change cycle, everyone is going through the dissuasion part
 
RedAsABeetroot said:
Goal line technology works. It's a fixed point on the pitch and the ball is over the line or not. Anything subjective is exactly that and so VAR shouldn't be used for any decisions like this. I'd include offside in this as deciding in which frame the ball was passed is also subjective.
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You assume goal line technology works because you are told it does. You don't actually know it works but you trust it. If the Goal Line Decision took 5 mins to make the same decision then people wouldn't be happy with it. Offside is exactly the same. If it was instant then people would accept it but it is the fact they think someone is sat there drawing lines on an image and they are probably getting it wrong. If the technology was the same as the goal line tech and the referee got a notification on his wrist as soon as it was offside then fans would accept it.

The rest of VAR isn't too dissimilar. It is the implementation that people don't like and that is almost wholly down to the time it takes to make a decision.
 
Nano said:
You assume goal line technology works because you are told it does. You don't actually know it works but you trust it. If the Goal Line Decision took 5 mins to make the same decision then people wouldn't be happy with it. Offside is exactly the same. If it was instant then people would accept it but it is the fact they think someone is sat there drawing lines on an image and they are probably getting it wrong. If the technology was the same as the goal line tech and the referee got a notification on his wrist as soon as it was offside then fans would accept it.

The rest of VAR isn't too dissimilar. It is the implementation that people don't like and that is almost wholly down to the time it takes to make a decision.
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Many of the people polled were fully behind VAR being implemented - if technology could help reach the correct decisions then it must be embraced. But what we have now is a waiting game that has diminished much of the spontaneous joy of going to a football match. Do you go fully all in to cheering a goal or do you hold back something for the VAR result? It has changed the nature of football in the Premier. Thank goodness it isn't likely to ever reach the Championship, we could not afford the technology nor could we afford to lose that spontaneity in the game.

Bring it back when the offside technology is more foolproof and when clear and obvious has been satisfactorily defined and that means a time limit. Or maybe only bring it back for offsides.
 
fmttmadmin said:
Many of the people polled were fully behind VAR being implemented - if technology could help reach the correct decisions then it must be embraced. But what we have now is a waiting game that has diminished much of the spontaneous joy of going to a football match. Do you go fully all in to cheering a goal or do you hold back something for the VAR result? It has changed the nature of football in the Premier. Thank goodness it isn't likely to ever reach the Championship, we could not afford the technology nor could we afford to lose that spontaneity in the game.

Bring it back when the offside technology is more foolproof and when clear and obvious has been satisfactorily defined and that means a time limit. Or maybe only bring it back for offsides.
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I completely disagree. The referees get their messaging completely wrong because we are 5 years in and still have people making comments like this about "clear and obvious". It already is satisfactorily defined but the idiot pundits in the studio don't understand it and then viewers parrot their ignorance. Don't forget that these TV pundits are not there to inform us. They are there to keep us watching and they do and say things that will get viewers engaged because that is what brings money in. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong.

Many of the people polled are idiots and they don't know what they want. I've walked out of enough championship games that have been decided by the referee making incorrect decisions and all the people around me complaining about the referee and the decision to know that if you polled them then they'd say that something needs to be done to improve things.

Nothing will ever be perfect. VAR critics are expecting perfection that they are never going to get. I've been in stadiums with VAR, I've celebrated goals. I've been in stadiums without VAR and celebrated goals that have then been ruled out. I've watched referees not give a penalty and then a linesman flag. I've seen penalties given and then the referee had a word with a linesman and changed their mind. I've seen red cards given after the referee has had time to speak to another official. There are loads of incidents that happen where the initial decision has not stood and I've never once thought that it was less enjoyable because the decision wasn't made instantly.

Is the millisecond after a goal scored the only part of the enjoyment of going to a game that counts? Is it more enjoyable to lose a game to an incorrect decision because it was made quickly? We still talk now about games we enjoyed decades ago. The enjoyment of football lasts a lot longer than the spontaneity of scoring a goal.

Despite these "widespread" concerns about VAR there were more goals this season than any other PL season. Attendances were at capacity across the league, viewing figures were higher than ever before. Where is this evidence that VAR is ruining the enjoyment of the game?

I do agree that it isn't perfect, and it never will be. I disagree with scrapping it though. It needs refining, it needs to trust technology more, it needs to be quicker to reach decisions and it mostly needs to be transparent so fans know how/why a decision was made. Most VAR disagreements are because we don't know why the referee made the decision they made. The concept of VAR is still a good one. The implementation of it can be improved.
 
Nano said:
I completely disagree. The referees get their messaging completely wrong because we are 5 years in and still have people making comments like this about "clear and obvious". It already is satisfactorily defined but the idiot pundits in the studio don't understand it and then viewers parrot their ignorance. Don't forget that these TV pundits are not there to inform us. They are there to keep us watching and they do and say things that will get viewers engaged because that is what brings money in. It doesn't matter if they are right or wrong.

Many of the people polled are idiots and they don't know what they want. I've walked out of enough championship games that have been decided by the referee making incorrect decisions and all the people around me complaining about the referee and the decision to know that if you polled them then they'd say that something needs to be done to improve things.
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Anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot?

Nano said:
Is it more enjoyable to lose a game to an incorrect decision because it was made quickly?
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On balance yes. I'll take incorrect decisions on the chin to not have VAR.

Nano said:
Where is this evidence that VAR is ruining the enjoyment of the game?
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fmttmadmin said:
From FSA Twitter - "Almost 10,000 fans took part in the FSA’s National 2023 Supporters’ Survey - only one in 20 (5.5%) of fans who had experienced VAR in stadiums rated their experience of it as good or very good."
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Here
 
This frequently happens on here when VAR is mentioned. Anyone who doesn’t want it is told they just don’t understand it.

The truth is I understand it perfectly well but absolutely loathe it. I never wanted it, don’t want it, and will never want it. It is absolutely sh*t.
 
B_G said:
Here
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That doesn't mean it is ruining the enjoyment of the game. That means they don't think VAR is good or very good. How would a poll that said "How well do you think referees do their job?" would go?

B_G said:
Anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot?
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No. That's not what I said. I said many of the people are idiots. I've heard enough opinions on football phone-ins, facebook comments and this place to know that people aren't always on the ball. People not bothering to understand how or why a rule is enforced are idiots. People that understand the rule but disagree with the decision are not idiots. Football comment sections are filled with the former. E.g. people talking about Coventry's offside goal not being a "clear and obvious error" are idiots because clear and obvious doesn't come into offside decisions.

B_G said:
On balance yes. I'll take incorrect decisions on the chin to not have VAR.
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That's fair enough and I respect that decision. I'm on the other end of the scale and I enjoy things more when things are decided by the competitors and not the officials.
 
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