Sunderland Season Ticket Sales
- Thread starter BeanBeany
- Start date
FishofContemplation
Well-known member
ALL of it?
So you think we should charge kids more? How much?
And perhaps taking you a little less literally and straying a bit more into a matter of opinion you think we don’t have a smaller fan base? Despite being in a smaller population primary LA area in a smaller contiguous urban area and with a smaller population in our rural hinterland? And averaging less than them about eight times in ten when we’re in the same division historically?
The who has the biggest willy stuff is pathetic and irrelevant. But if you want to be pathetic and irrelevant it’s them.
jam69
Well-known member
And that's the early bird price?
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
Why would I charge kids more when I think we are already overcharging fans? After reading the original post again, that is the only bit I agree with. My bad.
I was disagreeing that Sunderland can keep their prices lower due to the size of their fan base and that we would only gain a few thousand extra fans. I don't agree that a large fan base helps you to keep your prices low. Smaller clubs than us have lower ticket prices but I would argue you already know that.
The poster also stated it would lead to a long term revenue loss. Again, Sunderland has realised that if they fill these seats at lower prices the punter will spend money on other things related to the club and will offset a percentage of any loss of revenue.
He goes on to say that the club more or less has it right with ticketing prices. I am sorry but they don't. The discrepancy between walk up prices is ridiculously high and enough to put some punters off with many other posters on this thread agreeing with that point. I certainly wouldn't pay the amount they are asking and know many more who feel the same.
I don't know where you've got me measuring my willy against someone else, you've certainly lost me here and not sure how to reply to it. Your post does come over a little pedantic and aggressive in its tone. I'm not sure why you feel this way other than I dared to disagree with the Boro's ticketing pricing.
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TeaCider
Well-known member
It is, and only the renewal early bird price.
indeedido
Well-known member
For season 2021-22 Sunderland revenue from tickets (all competitions) £9,482,000.
That includes a Play off final and two lucrative semi finals v Sheff Weds, plus a run to a League Cup QF at a sold out Arsenal.
Average home league attendance 31,421.
For season 2021-22 Middlesbrough revenue from tickets (all competitions) £9,460,000
That includes a run to the FA Cup Home QF and the share of gate at OT.
Average home league attendance 21,825.
The 9,596 additional people per home match effectively generated them nothing versus us.
Sunderland's pricing "model" works for them because their stadium as far too big for them to price any other way. (The same revenue comparison is true by the way during 2016-17 PL season.)
The SOL was extended as a vanity project. They can't ever sell it out even with their very cheap pricing.
I do believe The Riverside is the right size for us. I also believe it could be more creatively priced to be fuller more often than it is, even in poor seasons.
The problem at MFC is not the kids prices. People wanting £60 prices for U18's SC's are ridiculous. Seriously £2.61 per match?
The GRFZ is a barmy pricing policy, it is too cheap. Extending it would be daft.
GRFZ areas are now proving divisive. Kids SC prices are just fine at The Riverside, as are other SC concessions.
The problem at MFC is the offensive difference between SC EB renewal prices and Walk up prices - and the concession prices for those walk ups - making it far too expensive for a Parent and single child to go to the match.
The Walk up prices are the problem and yet is where lies the opportunity to be more creative.
The catchment area comparison is contentious. Those who want to broadcast this "little Boro" image will always try to focus on it being the club of "the town". It isn't.
At the very least it is the club of Teesside (UA's of Middlesbrough, Stockton-on-Tees and Redcar & Cleveland). 477,831 people.
But then to say it doesn't appeal to any people in Darlington, Hartlepool, (200,000 combined) and North Yorkshire (Richmondshire and Hambleton combined 144,000) is just madness.
Then we do have supporters in Southern County Durham, out in Scarborough/Whitby too.
Plus the huge number of people who have moved away from the area, yet passionately support the club.
We do pretty well for actual attendance, but still have vast additional potential catchment area.
We don't have the numbers of the North Tyne & Northumberland, South Tyne/Wear & County Durham, but we do have over 800,000 people to pull on.
NorthumberlandBoro
Well-known member
Interesting read that.
Surely the 477k figure includes Hartlepool?
Edit: I've checked you are correct it doesn't include Hartlepool.
I wouldn't anticipate us drawing support from Hartlepool (or county Durham).
Newcastle and Sunderland share a catchment approaching 2m.
Hard to say exactly how that 2m splits between the two, but I would expect them both to attract double our attendances in the same league to match us in relative terms. They don't of course, but Newcastle may if they expand their stadium.
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indeedido
Well-known member
No, just add up the UA's I quoted. 477,831 is Middlesbrough + Stockton-on-Tees + Redcar & Cleveland.
Of course there are lots of Boro fans in Darlington, Hartlepool, Durham towns and villages and across Hambleton and Richmondshire.
Our catchment is over 800,000 without stretching things at all. Hartlepool and Darlo are a few miles away.
I agree about Newcastle and Sunderland being c2m. They both have bigger catchments and therefore bigger fanbases.
Newcastle generate far more than us. Sunderland don't.
NorthumberlandBoro
Well-known member
Yeah, I edited my original post re the population of Teesside.
I would disagree about Hartlepool and South county Durham though - staunch Sunderland heartlands for me.
Not so sure about Darlo, but never thought of it as Boro oriented.
I would say around 500k for our catchment, but respect that opinions vary!
How many times have we sold out the Riverside since we've been in the Championship?
I'm not wanting £60 for U18s, what I do want is a total price for me and my son, whichever way the structure it, to be comparable to other teams in the Championship. At the moment it isn't unless you sit in the GRZ because the ridiculously cheap childrens tickets offset the overly priced adult tickets.
The catchments are irrelevant. Is the stadium full? No. So it's either too big or we've got something wrong.
Look at West Broms pricing structure below. Dad and lad can sit anywhere in the ground for cheaper than the cheapest adult season ticket at the Boro. We would fill our stadium at those prices. You can crunch the numbers all you want but: a) they don't include merchandise/refreshments etc. and b) even if we ended up losing ticket sale revenue, the amount would be a drop in the ocean compared to the total revenue of the club. Surely that loss would be offset by the advantage of having a full stadium every week and securing a future fanbase.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Our realistic catchment area (to me) is the old County Cleveland less Hartlepool add in Stokesley, Great Ayton and Cleveland villages out to the Tontine. I would say about 450,000.
We do get a few from other areas of North Yorkshire but the numbers are small. For example a small bus ran from Whitby and one from Helmsley in the late 1970s. At secondary school in Whitby there were about 8 of us opposed to over 100 Leeds. Ref Darlo my Darlo cousin told me in 1981 it was the only Boro fan in his secondary school that he was aware of. Ref County Durham, in 1983 I used to get a United Service Bus from Newcastle to Boro. A couple of Boro fans got on in Sedgefield, but none before that, plenty in Stockton.
Indeedio's information on total revenue ticket information is interesting. I did guess the figures were similar based on Sunderland's prices been around 30% cheaper. Sunderland may have more revenuie from food and drink sales, but I don't believe fans in general spend a lot on food and drink in stadiums. especially adults. Programme sales had almost stopped.
Most Boro fans are more committed to the Club than say the average MU fan, who may go to a game once every five years. With that commitment there an element of donation the Club when you purchase a ticket, for me. You can see the direct connection between your ticket revenue and spending players. Last weekend I had tea and cake at an open house garden event and it cost £5. I thought that was expensive, but paid it because all money collected went to a local hospice charity.
We do get a few from other areas of North Yorkshire but the numbers are small. For example a small bus ran from Whitby and one from Helmsley in the late 1970s. At secondary school in Whitby there were about 8 of us opposed to over 100 Leeds. Ref Darlo my Darlo cousin told me in 1981 it was the only Boro fan in his secondary school that he was aware of. Ref County Durham, in 1983 I used to get a United Service Bus from Newcastle to Boro. A couple of Boro fans got on in Sedgefield, but none before that, plenty in Stockton.
Indeedio's information on total revenue ticket information is interesting. I did guess the figures were similar based on Sunderland's prices been around 30% cheaper. Sunderland may have more revenuie from food and drink sales, but I don't believe fans in general spend a lot on food and drink in stadiums. especially adults. Programme sales had almost stopped.
Most Boro fans are more committed to the Club than say the average MU fan, who may go to a game once every five years. With that commitment there an element of donation the Club when you purchase a ticket, for me. You can see the direct connection between your ticket revenue and spending players. Last weekend I had tea and cake at an open house garden event and it cost £5. I thought that was expensive, but paid it because all money collected went to a local hospice charity.
18MFC76
Well-known member
Well said. I Completely agree with you. The fact that we're almost bringing in the same revenue as Sunderland despite having an average attendance of around 10k less just goes to show how much more expensive our tickets are than Sunderland. The same people will come on and defend the pricing time and time again.
I think it's the kids ticket prices that bug me the most. They must be some of the most expensive in the country in terms of both ST and walk up prices. We never really sell out and haven't for years. Every one of those empty seats is a revenue opportunity lost. I really wish the club would try harder to get bums on seats and attract the fans of the future but as long as enough people defend the pricing the club probably feel there's no need to change anything.
Redwurzel
Well-known member
Coventry (twice), Wigan, Sunderland, Burnley - were sell outs or very close last season - 5 out of 24 games.
Last season roughly 25k home fans out of 29.5k home fan capacity is 84.7% utilisation which is not bad.
I think next season it will be higher based on EB ST sales.
Last season roughly 25k home fans out of 29.5k home fan capacity is 84.7% utilisation which is not bad.
I think next season it will be higher based on EB ST sales.
NorthumberlandBoro
Well-known member
The Riverside is the right size for the premier league.
That's based on one exciting, semi-successful season. I would hazard a guess that it's been our highest attended season in the Championship, probably even higher than the promotion season?
Run those numbers over the last 15 years and it'll be closer to 60-70% utilisation.
And if we have a poor season next season, we'll be back to those numbers.
Also, your numbers are contentious, if we were hitting 29k home fans every week we would surely reduce the segregation / away section to increase the home tickets available like we did against Coventry. What's the full stadium utilisation? Let's not ignore the fact we are pricing out away fans from attending as well.
I agree... and we are currently trying to fill it by charging Premier League prices.
Since we aren't in the Premier League, let's try and fill it by pricing it accordingly like other clubs do.