Corbyn on Piers Morgan show

Big_Nothing said:
Find this interesting:
“The British Government achieved a peace deal in Northern Ireland by beginning all party peace talks that included all elements - including those who had influence with the PIRA.

Agreeing dialogue with these groups, including the UVF, and suspending pejorative labels helped to build confidence. Confidence building measures were key to achieving a political consensus, a peace deal & then in time the demilitarisation of the PIRA.

Jeremy Corbyn thinks the exact same blue print should be applied to Israel-Palestine.

That is the reason he does not think it is helpful to throw pejorative labels around because they set back the confidence building needed for a two state solution to Israel-Palestine.”

I’m not going to add more to what’s already been said as many of the salient points have already been raised.

I’ve lectured at universities on the topic of this conflict and I generally avoid the media and it’s narratives around the issue as it angers me so much.
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^^👏

After reading through 6 pages of this thread, trying to learn more about both sides of the argument while feeling hugely frustrated with Corbyn’s approach to Morgan, your post has provided a moment of clarity for me.
I just wish that Corbyn and his supporters were able to make the point as clearly as you have.
To be fair, people have tried on this thread but your post in particular, makes it very simple and clear to understand,or at least it did for me.
That Corbyn hasn’t found a way to be heard clarifying why he chooses to refuse to engage with the ‘labelling‘, just demonstrates why he is such easy pickings for the RWM and the majority who, probably like me, are ignorant to the intricacies of the peace building process and the history in Israel/Gaza.
 
iamborome said:
I didnt say that the attacks were all on military bases. When I referred to the attacks on civilians, I was referring to the attacks on the music festival and kibbutzs. Hamas attacked four military bases surrounding the Gaza border: Zikim, Re'im, Nahal Oz and Erez. What part of this is fantasy? I should also point out that a large of the victims on that day were killed by the IDF who shelled Israeli homes when they believed there were Hamas fighters inside not caring that they were also killing Israelis. They also killed Israelis driving away from the festival with hellfire rockets. These are all documented facts which can be found on Israeli media.



Click to expand...
The third link does not open.
The second link says hostages were killed in crossfire.
The first link is from The Grey Zone which has a very dubious record and the text it highlights is it's own.

None of which back up your claims that there are documented facts which show;

4 military bases attacked
shelling of Israeli homes
launched hellfire rockets at Israelis driving away from the festival
 
ForssAwakens said:
People have given clarity why corbyn won’t label them anything, it undermines any peace process
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Hang on
Something a back bench independent MP in England might say, can undermine the most difficult peace process discussions for decades?

Come on - utter tosh

Hope Biden, Bibi and Hamas don't see the discussion on here - any peace plan will be well and truly scuppered
 
1finny said:
Hang on
Something a back bench independent MP in England might say, can undermine the most difficult peace process discussions for decades?

Come on - utter tosh

Hope Biden, Bibi and Hamas don't see the discussion on here - any peace plan will be well and truly scuppered
Click to expand...
it isn’t tosh, it is what it is whether it fits your narrative or not

They scuppering themselves as has been pointed out by calling hamas a terrorist group
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
He knows that this is a very complex situation and no doubt wanted, in contrast to every other MP doing the rounds, to give a nuanced answer rather than just a list of rehearsed sound bites but it seems that a large portion of the TV watching public would be happier with just that. A soundbite.
He knows that all freedom fighters eventually become terrorists, but that the worthiness of their cause remains the same and he knows that all conflicts eventually end through dialogue. No soundbite can convey this.

One thing is for certain though. He can run rings around Starmer on this subject. Starmer is all at sea. I don't know if he is just lacking in knowledge of this subject or if he is too compromised by all the money his party has accepted from Zionist lobbyists but he is totally lost. How can a high flying human rights lawyer think that the Holocaust was a terrorist attack on Israel?
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I probably disagree on his ability to convey what you say.
His thinking appears to be 'yes they are a terror group but, much like others in the past, we have to understand how and why they have been driven to this course of action'
From my perspective this is a reasonable discussion to have.

The tricky bit is - he still would have been slaughtered.
That's the daft bit for me. Going on a PM show was only going to end up with him being mullered.
My view - better to be mullered for saying what I really think rather than dodging the question.
 
ForssAwakens said:
it isn’t tosh, it is what it is whether it fits your narrative or not

They scuppering themselves as has been pointed out by calling hamas a terrorist group
Click to expand...

My narrative, in this case, is questioning whether a back bench MP in England can say something that will de rail the peace process.
And yes, my conclusion is 'tosh' (whoever they are)

You take a different view - fine by me
 
Millbrook said:
The third link does not open.
The second link says hostages were killed in crossfire.
The first link is from The Grey Zone which has a very dubious record and the text it highlights is it's own.

None of which back up your claims that there are documented facts which show;

4 military bases attacked
shelling of Israeli homes
launched hellfire rockets at Israelis driving away from the festival
Click to expand...


propagandaandco.tech

⚡️ It's time to break this narrative once and for all...

Before they launch missiles, they launch propaganda campaigns. Before they roll out tanks, they roll out narratives. - Caitlin Johnstone
propagandaandco.tech

 
Good article by Media Lens:

www.medialens.org

‘Are Hamas A Terror Group? Are They A Terror Group? Answer The Question!’

In an interview this week on Talk TV, Piers Morgan subjected Jeremy Corbyn to an extraordinary barrage of questioning: ‘Are Hamas a terror group? Are they a terror group? Answer the question! Are they a terror group? Are they a terror group? Are they a terror group? Are they a terror group? Why
www.medialens.org www.medialens.org
 
1finny said:
Hang on
Something a back bench independent MP in England might say, can undermine the most difficult peace process discussions for decades?

Come on - utter tosh

Hope Biden, Bibi and Hamas don't see the discussion on here - any peace plan will be well and truly scuppered
Click to expand...

1finny said:
My narrative, in this case, is questioning whether a back bench MP in England can say something that will de rail the peace process.
And yes, my conclusion is 'tosh' (whoever they are)

You take a different view - fine by me
Click to expand...


It's possible is it not, that he didn't want to be part of the undermining process regardless of his personal influence. Seeing as this has always been his approach (ie. if asked if he denounced antisemitism he would always, without fail say that he denounced all forms of prejudice regardless of the amount of criticism this would attract) perhaps he was being true to himself. I know this is impossible to believe of most MPs who would tend to trot out whatever was expected of them in a given situation, but it's par for the course for Corbyn.
 
MolteniArcore said:
He should have just called them terrorists and then say what he thinks needs to happen rather than let people just dismiss what he is saying due to him not calling them out.
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So by that logic none of the free Nelson Mandela stuff should have been happening in the 80s? South African apartheid would have been sorted better/quicker if everyone just agreed he was a terrorist like the newspaper editors wanted them to?
 
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© Haaretz Daily Newspaper Ltd. All Rights Reserved
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* This coming together hasnt happened for many ,many, many decades: Jews and Arabs together marching for a cease-fire, in the face of the most fantaical opposition from Israeli extremists and its far-right Government. Not only are there marches in Tel Aviv against changes in the constitution, but also marches from the relatives of those hostages - who blame Netanyahu and his Ultra-Right Government - for concentrating on bombing Gaza, not getting the hostages released. In addition, the refuser network is gaining support against the war in Gaza and against the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. They are brave people marching on the streets of Tel Aviv. It doesnt happen. When there has been protests recently, the Israeli Police and soldiers have been employing the same tactics against their own people - which they have perfected on the Palestinians over decades of occupation.
​
למטה עם נתניהו. שחררו את בני הערובה.
תפסיק את המלחמה. הפסקת אש עכשיו.
לסיים את הכיבוש.​
 
Its quite ironic the TV channel is called "Talk" TV - should have be called "One Question" TV.

One day people in the media may say Isreal and the Palestinians needs to sit down and negotiate a long term peace settlement. At present I only see more conflict and fighting for several years to come as per Northern Ireland in the 1980s and early 1990s.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
It's possible is it not, that he didn't want to be part of the undermining process regardless of his personal influence. Seeing as this has always been his approach (ie. if asked if he denounced antisemitism he would always, without fail say that he denounced all forms of prejudice regardless of the amount of criticism this would attract) perhaps he was being true to himself. I know this is impossible to believe of most MPs who would tend to trot out whatever was expected of them in a given situation, but it's par for the course for Corbyn.
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely possible.
He could have found a way of articulating - that he didn’t want to answer the question because whatever he said would have been jumped upon and twisted which in turn could undermine a peace process.

I can’t help thinking what the hec was he doing giving PM oxygen.
 
1finny said:
Yes, absolutely possible.
He could have found a way of articulating - that he didn’t want to answer the question because whatever he said would have been jumped upon and twisted which in turn could undermine a peace process.

I can’t help thinking what the hec was he doing giving PM oxygen.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that's exactly what he was going to do, but because of PM we will never know
 
SuperStu said:
So by that logic none of the free Nelson Mandela stuff should have been happening in the 80s? South African apartheid would have been sorted better/quicker if everyone just agreed he was a terrorist like the newspaper editors wanted them to?
Click to expand...

Seems like you are arguing that Hamas aren’t terrorists there Stu.

Even going on that show just shows how daft Corbyn is. He should have known what was coming and had a better response. Or maybe just not bothered.
 
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