Corbyn on Piers Morgan show

thewanderer said:
Disgraceful post.
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Really? Which bit of it is wrong in your opinion? Modern Israeli historians accept that Israel was created by a deliberate policy of ethnic cleansing by zionist militias who rampaged through Palestine murdering Palestinian civilians and terrorising the remainder into fleeing their homes. These poor people ended up in refugee camps in Gaza and the west bank. This isn't some sort of conspiracy theory, it is fact. Tell me which bits of my post you disagree with and I will quote you chapter and verse.
 
1finny said:
I didn’t accuse you of whataboutery.

If you are concerned about politicians not answering questions, I’m all in.
Which is why I suggested JC should have answered the question honestly.
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Corbyn has condemned Hamas in the HoC for all to see, I posted it earlier.
Why does Starmer find it so hard to condemn war crimes? Is it because he took the Zionist $?
 
This is a book worth reading. Written by Sylvain Cypel - a Jew - whose Father fled Ukraine and moved to Paris in 1938. Cypel spent 12 years as a French Labour Zionist [There is more than one Zionism and more than one type of Jew]. He moved to Israel in 1969 and became a Paratrooper in the IDF.

He is more than qualified to comment on how he envisions the State of Israel and how he saw it "dissintegrate" before his own eyes. His research and lived experience is more than worth reading in this book. He remains a journalist with French Newspaper "Le Monde" and studied at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

You can buy the book by following the link below:

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otherpress.com

The State of Israel vs. the Jews

PopMatters: Best Book of the Year From an award-winning journalist, a perceptive study of how Israel’s actions, which run counter to the traditional historical values of Judaism, are putting Jewish people worldwide in an increasingly untenable position. More than a decade ago, the historian Tony...
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Blf said:
I really feel Corbyn was totally responsible for the collapse of the red wall in the last GE. He will never answer these type of questions as he knows his answers will get him vilified. He knows he is out of step with the majority of voters.
As much as I don't like him he is still preferable to Morgan.
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Corbyn has made his views about Hamas quite clear in the not too distant past. Hopefully he has reevaluated them.

“The idea that an organisation that is dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people and bringing about long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government is really a big, big historical mistake and I would invite the government to reconsider their position on this matter and start talking directly to Hamas and Hezbollah…”
 
Alzi said:
Corbyn has made his views about Hamas quite clear in the not too distant past. Hopefully he has reevaluated them.

“The idea that an organisation that is dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people and bringing about long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government is really a big, big historical mistake and I would invite the government to reconsider their position on this matter and start talking directly to Hamas and Hezbollah…”
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You may not be aware of this but Hamas has in the past agreed to a two state solution on the basis of the 1967 border and offered to renounce violence if Israel stops killing Palestinians.
 
iamborome said:
You may not be aware of this but Hamas has in the past agreed to a two state solution on the basis of the 1967 border and offered to renounce violence if Israel stops killing Palestinians.
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I’m not sure how relevant that is to today though?

Their more recent actions are those of indiscriminate murder and kidnapping of women and children. Would you say these actions were justified? To me it says they are cowardly scum and terrorists.

Before anyone says it, i’m not an Israeli sympathiser. I equally condone their actions and the impact on innocent Palastines.
 
Alzi said:
Corbyn has made his views about Hamas quite clear in the not too distant past. Hopefully he has reevaluated them.

“The idea that an organisation that is dedicated towards the good of the Palestinian people and bringing about long-term peace and social justice and political justice in the whole region should be labelled as a terrorist organisation by the British government is really a big, big historical mistake and I would invite the government to reconsider their position on this matter and start talking directly to Hamas and Hezbollah…”
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Any idea when this quote is originally from?
And the context of the rest of the quote ?

I'm genuinely interested in the timeline
 
Alzi said:
I’m not sure how relevant that is to today though?

Their more recent actions are those of indiscriminate murder and kidnapping of women and children. Would you say these actions were justified? To me it says they are cowardly scum and terrorists.

Before anyone says it, i’m not an Israeli sympathiser. I equally condone their actions and the impact on innocent Palastines
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Alzi said:
.
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It is relevant because Israel and its supporters are trying to portray Hamas as some sort of crazy, extremist cult like ISIS and therefore illegitimate. It dehumanises "the enemy" in order to justify mass murder. Hamas is a resistance organisation that has sought peaceful solutions. Those solutions have been rejected by Israel. Lets face it, the israeli government under Netanyahu does not want a peaceful solution. It wants to create an Israel from Jordan to the sea as set out in the Likud charter. Hamas has committed atrocities against Israeli civilians and this is to be condemned. But I cannot help but think that this is both tragic and inevitable in circumstances where the state of Israel daily commits atrocities against Palestinians. The only way in which this cycle of violence can be stopped is by a cease fire leading to genuine peace negotiations. The US has the power to make this happen but it wont. the answer is not to label Hamas as a terrorist organisation.
 
Millbrook said:
Again before the atrocity I would have looked at Gaza and echoed the words of Golda Meir in 1973 when she said;

'If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.'
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United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs - occupied Palestinian territory | Data on casualties

function checkmobile(){ let check = false; (function(a){if(/(android|bb\d+|meego).+mobile|avantgo|bada\/|blackberry|blazer|compal|elaine|fennec|hiptop|iemobile|ip(hone|od)|iris|kindle|lge |maemo|midp|mmp|mobile.+firefox|netfront|opera m(ob|in)i|palm(...
www.ochaopt.org www.ochaopt.org

Snappy line, but honestly when you give it some thought I think that might just be a bit of old colonial racism. It's like a "white mans burden" sort of sentiment isn't it? I mean if you look at the figures over the last 15 years, it's pretty clear that actually just putting down their weapons won't suddenly make Palestinians safe from Israel.
 
iamborome said:
It is relevant because Israel and its supporters are trying to portray Hamas as some sort of crazy, extremist cult like ISIS and therefore illegitimate. It dehumanises "the enemy" in order to justify mass murder. Hamas is a resistance organisation that has sought peaceful solutions. Those solutions have been rejected by Israel. Let’s face it, the israeli government under Netanyahu does not want a peaceful solution. It wants to create an Israel from Jordan to the sea as set out in the Likud charter. Hamas has committed atrocities against Israeli civilians and this is to be condemned. But I cannot help but think that this is both tragic and inevitable in circumstances where the state of Israel daily commits atrocities against Palestinians. The only way in which this cycle of violence can be stopped is by a cease fire leading to genuine peace negotiations. The US has the power to make this happen but it wont. the answer is not to label Hamas as a terrorist organisation.
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We will have to disagree re Hamas but I agree or course about the cease fire and negotiations. I do agree Israel have and are currently making the situation a great deal worse for everyone and it is not acceptable for them to label the killing of innocent men, women and children as collateral damage .
 
Millbrook said:
Source please.
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www.aljazeera.com

Hamas ready to accept 1967 borders

US dismisses comments as Palestinian group says it will still “not recognise Israel”.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
www.theguardian.com

Hamas moves away from violence in deal with Palestinian Authority

Islamic party that has controlled Gaza for five years is to shift emphasis away from armed struggle to non-violent resistance
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
en.wikipedia.org

Hamas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Find this interesting:
“The British Government achieved a peace deal in Northern Ireland by beginning all party peace talks that included all elements - including those who had influence with the PIRA.

Agreeing dialogue with these groups, including the UVF, and suspending pejorative labels helped to build confidence. Confidence building measures were key to achieving a political consensus, a peace deal & then in time the demilitarisation of the PIRA.

Jeremy Corbyn thinks the exact same blue print should be applied to Israel-Palestine.

That is the reason he does not think it is helpful to throw pejorative labels around because they set back the confidence building needed for a two state solution to Israel-Palestine.”

I’m not going to add more to what’s already been said as many of the salient points have already been raised.

I’ve lectured at universities on the topic of this conflict and I generally avoid the media and it’s narratives around the issue as it angers me so much.
 
Big_Nothing said:
Find this interesting:
“The British Government achieved a peace deal in Northern Ireland by beginning all party peace talks that included all elements - including those who had influence with the PIRA.

Agreeing dialogue with these groups, including the UVF, and suspending pejorative labels helped to build confidence. Confidence building measures were key to achieving a political consensus, a peace deal & then in time the demilitarisation of the PIRA.

Jeremy Corbyn thinks the exact same blue print should be applied to Israel-Palestine.

That is the reason he does not think it is helpful to throw pejorative labels around because they set back the confidence building needed for a two state solution to Israel-Palestine.”

I’m not going to add more to what’s already been said as many of the salient points have already been raised.

I’ve lectured at universities on the topic of this conflict and I generally avoid the media and it’s narratives around the issue as it angers me so much.
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What I find strange is when EVERYONE is calling Hamas a terrorist group why does Corbyn feel that if he doesn’t it will help anything?

The only thing that it does is make him look like a Hamas supporter. He should have just called them terrorists and then say what he thinks needs to happen rather than let people just dismiss what he is saying due to him not calling them out.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
Corbyn has condemned Hamas in the HoC for all to see, I posted it earlier.
Why does Starmer find it so hard to condemn war crimes? Is it because he took the Zionist $?
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You are right - he has condemned Hamas and called for a ceasefire.
This wasn't what he was asked tho
He was asked if it was a terror organisation - and he wouldn't answer the question.

Most people, and politicians would have been unequivocal and said 'yes',
some would, no doubt say 'no' and explain it.
 
1finny said:
You are right - he has condemned Hamas and called for a ceasefire.
This wasn't what he was asked tho
He was asked if it was a terror organisation - and he wouldn't answer the question.

Most people, and politicians would have been unequivocal and said 'yes',
some would, no doubt say 'no' and explain it.
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People have given clarity why corbyn won’t label them anything, it undermines any peace process
 
1finny said:
You are right - he has condemned Hamas and called for a ceasefire.
This wasn't what he was asked tho
He was asked if it was a terror organisation - and he wouldn't answer the question.

Most people, and politicians would have been unequivocal and said 'yes',
some would, no doubt say 'no' and explain it.
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He knows that this is a very complex situation and no doubt wanted, in contrast to every other MP doing the rounds, to give a nuanced answer rather than just a list of rehearsed sound bites but it seems that a large portion of the TV watching public would be happier with just that. A soundbite.
He knows that all freedom fighters eventually become terrorists, but that the worthiness of their cause remains the same and he knows that all conflicts eventually end through dialogue. No soundbite can convey this.

One thing is for certain though. He can run rings around Starmer on this subject. Starmer is all at sea. I don't know if he is just lacking in knowledge of this subject or if he is too compromised by all the money his party has accepted from Zionist lobbyists but he is totally lost. How can a high flying human rights lawyer think that the Holocaust was a terrorist attack on Israel?
 
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