Corbyn on Piers Morgan show

The state of Israel was created by terrorism and Israel has been terrorising the Palestinian population ever since. The current assault on Gaza is about as clear an act of terrorism as you will ever see. Hamas is called a terrorist organisation by those states in the West that support Israel. Doing so is a political act which is designed to delegitimise resistance to Israel and to dehumanise Hamas in order to provide an excuse to "ethnically cleanse" Gaza - ie to kill thousands of Palestinians and terrorise the living into fleeing their homes. The Israeli agriculture minister recently said that Israel is "rolling out the Gaza Nakba".

It seems to me that the best way to answer Morgan's question is to ask. him what he means by a terrorist organisation and then to test his answer by asking whether this applied to Israel. It seems to me that it is always better to stick to the facts in these debates rather then impose definitions. Calling Hamas a terrorist organisation is a simplistic and lazy exercise. On October 7th Hamas attacked Israeli military bases. Two thirds of the those killed on that day were military. An occupied people have a legal right under international law to resist occupation, including by armed resistance. The israeli military were legitimate targets. They are the concentration camp guards, the people who murdered 230 unarmed men women and children who marched peacefully to the Gaz perimeter on the anniversary of the Nakba. The same people who regularly bomb Gaza and kill thousands of innocent civilians. Hamas's attack on the IDF was not an act of terrorism, but a legitimate act of resistance under international law. The attacks on innocent civilians were not legitimate and are rightfully condemned as terrible crimes.
 
PM. ’Are Hamas a terror group’
JC. ‘Yes’ (if he believes that)

If he doesn’t believe that then have the balls to say so and justify it.


Or, try and play politics which, for a ‘principled’ MP, shouldn’t be an option.


For the record I and my Palestinian colleagues think Hamas is a terror group
 
newyddion said:
He gave the people what they wanted.. everything and we could afford it and the manifesto was fully costed.

However.. he was too soft with the self destructive elements within the labour party. The get along gang we certainly were not.. the inclusive approach, the broad church.. simply didn't work when there was a large portion of the party working against him, the membership and the party itself. The coup early doors cost the part credibility, and we paid for that in the 2017 election. Painting the party as the part of remain.. as keir starmer did also massively damaged the party in 2019.

A lot of folks should have been shipped out to the lib dems.. he should have kept a lid on the free Palestine stuff until after the general election. When it came to the Brexit debate he should have stepped up and state his case fully and firmly. CLearly appeasing the momentum lot with this quasi pro eu stance.

A soft brexit in 2019 absolutely wipes the floor with Boris Johnson.. the remainers in the Liberal Democrat party would have found themselves out on their **** as did many red wall labour MPs

I liked JC but think he was too soft.. the best Labour have come up with and Streets ahead of the tories.. but still too soft..
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Yep or I suppose to be kinder, too reasonable. Fine if everyone is also going to be fair and reasonable.

Unfortunately too many just throwing their toys out of the pram.
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
If your country was invaded and you were forced to eke out a living on the margins whilst being treated as a sub-human, would you join up?
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I’ve no idea - I’m a pacifist at heart so have great difficulty considering joining up for any conflict..

I think having this as an objective,

The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place

then killing innocent people indiscriminately is worthy of being labelled a terrorist organisation

If I didn’t believe they were a terrorist group I’d be happy to appear with Piers Morgan, say so and defend it.
 
iamborome said:
The state of Israel was created by terrorism and Israel has been terrorising the Palestinian population ever since. The current assault on Gaza is about as clear an act of terrorism as you will ever see. Hamas is called a terrorist organisation by those states in the West that support Israel. Doing so is a political act which is designed to delegitimise resistance to Israel and to dehumanise Hamas in order to provide an excuse to "ethnically cleanse" Gaza - ie to kill thousands of Palestinians and terrorise the living into fleeing their homes. The Israeli agriculture minister recently said that Israel is "rolling out the Gaza Nakba".

It seems to me that the best way to answer Morgan's question is to ask. him what he means by a terrorist organisation and then to test his answer by asking whether this applied to Israel. It seems to me that it is always better to stick to the facts in these debates rather then impose definitions. Calling Hamas a terrorist organisation is a simplistic and lazy exercise. On October 7th Hamas attacked Israeli military bases. Two thirds of the those killed on that day were military. An occupied people have a legal right under international law to resist occupation, including by armed resistance. The israeli military were legitimate targets. They are the concentration camp guards, the people who murdered 230 unarmed men women and children who marched peacefully to the Gaz perimeter on the anniversary of the Nakba. The same people who regularly bomb Gaza and kill thousands of innocent civilians. Hamas's attack on the IDF was not an act of terrorism, but a legitimate act of resistance under international law. The attacks on innocent civilians were not legitimate and are rightfully condemned as terrible crimes.
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I understand views which are pro Palestinian but if you really believe that on 7/10 the attacks were on military bases then you are deluded.

Was that a military base where all the youngsters were dancing. Have you seen the pictures where one of them, a German girl is thrown half naked into the back of a pickup to be driven off. Oh and did you see ordinary Palestinians cheering on the attackers in various clips. We differentiate between Hamas and the Palestinians but the latter support the former and many were delighted with the killing which went on.

Up to the first sentence in the second para I would disagree but uphold your right to have that opinion.

After that you lapse into fantasy in an attempt to legitimise an atrocity. Your final sentence is correct but a poor attempt to soften the fantasy which came earlier.
 
I really feel Corbyn was totally responsible for the collapse of the red wall in the last GE. He will never answer these type of questions as he knows his answers will get him vilified. He knows he is out of step with the majority of voters.
As much as I don't like him he is still preferable to Morgan.
 
1finny said:
The group is committed to armed resistance against Israel and the creation of an Islamic Palestinian state in Israel's place
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As is the state of Israel but armed and financed by the US.

Screenshot 2023-11-14 at 18.26.30.png

Now here is how another question could be answered easily.
Q. Do you condemn the use of white phosphorus, collective punishment and bombing designated safe routes?
Starmer. Yes. (if he believes that. No if he doesn't. Waffle waffle waffle self defence waffle waffle if he is compromised by the Zionist $ he took).
 
Millbrook said:
Palestinians but the latter support the former and many were delighted with the killing which went on.
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No, you have gone too far with that.
I’ve been in regular contact with some Palestinian colleagues since that attack and they were horrified.
I may be being pedantic but you have said ‘many’ (which is relative)
My preference would be ‘some’
 
BlindBoyGrunt said:
As is the state of Israel but armed and financed by the US.

View attachment 67016

Now here is how another question could be answered easily.
Q. Do you condemn the use of white phosphorus, collective punishment and bombing designated safe routes?
Starmer. Yes. (if he believes that. No if he doesn't. Waffle waffle waffle self defence waffle waffle if he is compromised by the Zionist $ he took).
Click to expand...

The thread is about Corbyn and Morgan and Hamas being a terrorist organisation or not.
Feel free to start one on Starmer for views

What’s your view on Hamas being a terror organisation?
 
1finny said:
No, you have gone too far with that.
I’ve been in regular contact with some Palestinian colleagues since that attack and they were horrified.
I may be being pedantic but you have said ‘many’ (which is relative)
My preference would be ‘some’
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I accept that ( although I was meaning many in Gaza when they viewed what was happening rather than being worldwide). Difficult to measure but I accept your revision to some.

I won't edit the original so the thread shows I have been corrected
 
1finny said:
The thread is about Corbyn and Morgan and Hamas being a terrorist organisation or not.
Feel free to start one on Starmer for views

What’s your view on Hamas being a terror organisation?
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If you read up the thread you will see that I don't give a s**t about accusations of whataboutery. This to me is a thread about Politicians and how they deal with questions. It may have started with Corbyn but it certainly doesn't have to end there. If I wish to point out that a more senior MP - the forensic, grown-up, prime ministerial, former human rights lawyer - can't even get his script right after a month, then I will do that.
Plus he took the Zionist $.
 
I didn’t accuse you of whataboutery.

If you are concerned about politicians not answering questions, I’m all in.
Which is why I suggested JC should have answered the question honestly.
 
Millbrook said:
I understand views which are pro Palestinian but if you really believe that on 7/10 the attacks were on military bases then you are deluded.

Was that a military base where all the youngsters were dancing. Have you seen the pictures where one of them, a German girl is thrown half naked into the back of a pickup to be driven off. Oh and did you see ordinary Palestinians cheering on the attackers in various clips. We differentiate between Hamas and the Palestinians but the latter support the former and many were delighted with the killing which went on.

Up to the first sentence in the second para I would disagree but uphold your right to have that opinion.

After that you lapse into fantasy in an attempt to legitimise an atrocity. Your final sentence is correct but a poor attempt to soften the fantasy which came earlier.
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I didnt say that the attacks were all on military bases. When I referred to the attacks on civilians, I was referring to the attacks on the music festival and kibbutzs. Hamas attacked four military bases surrounding the Gaza border: Zikim, Re'im, Nahal Oz and Erez. What part of this is fantasy? I should also point out that a large of the victims on that day were killed by the IDF who shelled Israeli homes when they believed there were Hamas fighters inside not caring that they were also killing Israelis. They also killed Israelis driving away from the festival with hellfire rockets. These are all documented facts which can be found on Israeli media.



 
iamborome said:
I didnt say that the attacks were all on military bases. When I referred to the attacks on civilians, I was referring to the attacks on the music festival and kibbutzs. Hamas attacked four military bases surrounding the Gaza border: Zikim, Re'im, Nahal Oz and Erez. What part of this is fantasy? I should also point out that a large of the victims on that day were killed by the IDF who shelled Israeli homes when they believed there were Hamas fighters inside not caring that they were also killing Israelis. They also killed Israelis driving away from the festival with hellfire rockets. These are all documented facts which can be found on Israeli media.



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Thank you, I'll read all that tomorrow.
 
iamborome said:
I didnt say that the attacks were all on military bases. When I referred to the attacks on civilians, I was referring to the attacks on the music festival and kibbutzs. Hamas attacked four military bases surrounding the Gaza border: Zikim, Re'im, Nahal Oz and Erez. What part of this is fantasy? I should also point out that a large of the victims on that day were killed by the IDF who shelled Israeli homes when they believed there were Hamas fighters inside not caring that they were also killing Israelis. They also killed Israelis driving away from the festival with hellfire rockets. These are all documented facts which can be found on Israeli media.



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Very Powerful
Just so sad, isn’t it, when division, fear dogma et al is so bad your own people become collateral damage?
 
iamborome said:
The state of Israel was created by terrorism and Israel has been terrorising the Palestinian population ever since. The current assault on Gaza is about as clear an act of terrorism as you will ever see. Hamas is called a terrorist organisation by those states in the West that support Israel. Doing so is a political act which is designed to delegitimise resistance to Israel and to dehumanise Hamas in order to provide an excuse to "ethnically cleanse" Gaza - ie to kill thousands of Palestinians and terrorise the living into fleeing their homes. The Israeli agriculture minister recently said that Israel is "rolling out the Gaza Nakba".

It seems to me that the best way to answer Morgan's question is to ask. him what he means by a terrorist organisation and then to test his answer by asking whether this applied to Israel. It seems to me that it is always better to stick to the facts in these debates rather then impose definitions. Calling Hamas a terrorist organisation is a simplistic and lazy exercise. On October 7th Hamas attacked Israeli military bases. Two thirds of the those killed on that day were military. An occupied people have a legal right under international law to resist occupation, including by armed resistance. The israeli military were legitimate targets. They are the concentration camp guards, the people who murdered 230 unarmed men women and children who marched peacefully to the Gaz perimeter on the anniversary of the Nakba. The same people who regularly bomb Gaza and kill thousands of innocent civilians. Hamas's attack on the IDF was not an act of terrorism, but a legitimate act of resistance under international law. The attacks on innocent civilians were not legitimate and are rightfully condemned as terrible crimes.
Click to expand...
Disgraceful post.
 
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