Bournemouth gonna bid 10 mill for Tav

BoroMart said:
Most fans have limited knowledge. He has some limits, but at his age he is one of the best in terms of attacking and defensive contributions.
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He certainly has his moments, but imho he doesn't impose himself enough and has very little in the way of consistency.

I have hoped for ages that he would love up to his early potential, but he just hasn't kicked on.

10 mil would be a good price.
 
BoroMart said:
My point if you look back was that we are approaching the next season from a fairly healthy position from FFP.

I agree we have massive debts by champinship standards, but of course those debts are owed to Daddy. I agree that we aren't making the most of the investment in players that we have in the past unlike your example Luton.

But they are different issues to our FFP position which will be well within rules, and better than last year even before the Djed money. So FFP will not be the factor when deciding if we are going to spend it or not.

The deciding factor is if Steve Gibson wants to keep pumping money in, or reduce the debt to him. His best opportunity of recovering any cash is to get us promoted, and increase our income 7fold. When we look at the relegated teams, and the number of teams with parachute payments, then next season is a massive opportunity. I don't think Gibson will tighten the purse strings at this point, I suspect he'll give Wilder plenty to play with.
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True. I'm definitely not a Boro money man. I'm sure we employ people to look after our finances.

I have no doubt we won't do anything that will put us in the sh*t. I'm just thinking some of the players linked or wanted by fans are unrealistic.

They say we are getting 20mil for Spence so we can spend it. It's clearly not that simple. The majority of that will be paid over his contract and some will be needed to ballance the books.

So 10mil or more for another player (Tav etc) maybe in the interests of the club. Yet that's down to the scouting Dept. We picked up Crooks for 1mil and he's far better than say 7mil for Sav. So we are hopefully going in the right direction 👍
 
Billy69_uk said:
He certainly has his moments, but imho he doesn't impose himself enough and has very little in the way of consistency.
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Of course he has some consistency issues, but then he was playing in an inconsistent team that was trying to change it's style f play. We have to factor that in.

Could he impose himself on the game more? sure, but there are many excellent players that don't. He does have some improvements he needs to make, but he has all the foundations of a prem player. He has a great left foot, is mentally strong, huge work rate, plays good forward passes, has decent pace. He needs to work on his shooting, he needs to learn to use his right foot more, but those will come and he's already very good at this level. Still got another 3 or 4 years before he's fully matured.
 
S7DiscoDown said:
I have no doubt we won't do anything that will put us in the sh*t. I'm just thinking some of the players linked or wanted by fans are unrealistic.
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well, yes, that's always the case :D

S7DiscoDown said:
They say we are getting 20mil for Spence so we can spend it. It's clearly not that simple. The majority of that will be paid over his contract and some will be needed to ballance the books.
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From an FFP perspective I believe that 20m is immediately added to the FFP calc. So puts is in a great position. If we invest it and don't go up, we will need to make sales next season. Or FFP becomes a challenge again. If it's true that Fry and Tav have a year extension automatically applied, so they have 2 years left, then that allows us to keep them and spend 20m, with a plan B that we can sell them both next summer and level out again.

The opportunity is there for Gibson, if he wants to invest he now has the opportunity, which we didn't really have the last 3 seasons. He won't do anything silly, you are right, I think we will spend a lot mroe than previous seasons, just not sure how much in total or what our top purchase price is. We'll find out in the next couple of months
 
I think tav stepped up a bit last season and under wilder and considering his age Hel do it again next season . He’s certainly got more goals in especially in the championship. With hungry strike force up front Id like to think that will run off on him aswell next season
 
BoroMart said:
well, yes, that's always the case :D


From an FFP perspective I believe that 20m is immediately added to the FFP calc. So puts is in a great position. If we invest it and don't go up, we will need to make sales next season. Or FFP becomes a challenge again. If it's true that Fry and Tav have a year extension automatically applied, so they have 2 years left, then that allows us to keep them and spend 20m, with a plan B that we can sell them both next summer and level out again.

The opportunity is there for Gibson, if he wants to invest he now has the opportunity, which we didn't really have the last 3 seasons. He won't do anything silly, you are right, I think we will spend a lot mroe than previous seasons, just not sure how much in total or what our top purchase price is. We'll find out in the next couple of months
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Time will tell. I'm sure we will have another 'big exit' other than Spence.

I'm all for that if the team looks better on the other side. Everyone is replaceable with the right recruitment👍
 
S7DiscoDown said:
Time will tell. I'm sure we will have another 'big exit' other than Spence.

I'm all for that if the team looks better on the other side. Everyone is replaceable with the right recruitment👍
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I have read the thread just now and was going to jump in on a number of your posts S7. I didn't really need to as BoroMart is right in his responses.

Don't confuse Pre Tax Loss as our FFP measure. There are lots of add backs. Middlesbrough are in good shape re FFP.
The Club is like many - a financial basket case that loses millions every year outside the PL - but that does not mean it falls foul of FFP. It does however mean we need the continued backing of Gibson O'Neill:
1. To not call in the £130m or so that the Club owes the Parent Group.
2. To increase the Loan (Group Undertakings) by every year's loss.

Gibson can only escape this endless funding hell, by either promotion to the PL and the enormous growth in revenue, or by getting someone else to bail him out, which will never happen outside the PL.

Wage bill has been reduced, turnover will increase and crucially amortisation is a fraction of what it was under Monk and pulis.
We have players who have no Book value (Spence, Fry, Jones, Tavernier, McNair) who are worth well over £50m on the market.
If any or all are sold and replaced without paying fees for their replacements, then the Club would get a boost to turnover this season of the £50m, from Profit on sale of Player Registrations. This flows through impacting the Profit Before Tax AND FFP figures. This years FFP submission would be boosted, which impacts for 3 years.

If we signed Gyokeres for £15m, O'Hare for £5m and Riis for £5m, on 4 year contracts, the P&L and FFP figures would only be impacted by £6.25m of combined amortisation in this first year.
Given the size of the Spence fee, Boro could spend a hell of a lot of money this summer and be FFP cool.
So does Gibson pay himself down, or does he invest the Spence windfall on players who he can add to his base and give him a massive chance of getting out of this league and his need to horribly fund inevitable multi million pound losses in this league.

Gibson has worked incredibly hard to cycle the mistakes of the Monk/pulis years. He has the manager he wants, the recruitment set up he wants, a base of a squad, a healthy fan base and tens of millions of scope to recruit much much better.

S7 Cisco, it is not some of us who need to get real mate.
 
He's one of those 'core' players that you wouldn't really want to sell but I think it's worth remembering that we've finished 7th, 10th, 17th and 7th in the past four seasons. Up until the period just after Wilder came in through to the end of March time this season, we hadn't really pulled up any trees for about four years. Tav was a central part of the team for most of that time. There were/are shortcomings in other areas, obviously. But you think... is he absolutely irreplaceable?

We do have a group of good players but could you sell Tav and bring in two equally good players, therefore strengthening the group as a whole? Maybe the club think they can.

We know Tav has some really good qualities and is a big player for us on his day but also needs to improve certain things, the best way of doing that might be to move on and hear a new set of voices on the training field. He's been around the same environment for years. Same goes for Fry. We're waiting for them to take the team by the scruff of the neck but maybe this is sort of their limit.

As I say, we have a good core of players and Tav isn't one you'd actively look to sell but if a good bid comes in and the player is interested it wouldn't be the end of the world IMO. I like him a lot and think he brings a lot but it might just need freshening up.
 
boroPE said:
Tav, Fry and Jones proved themselves as some of the best players in the Championship last season. Its who you would replace them with that would worry me ?
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Did they though?

Fry is decent, Jones on his day is great. Tav is a decent champo midfielder with weaknesses.

None made the toty!
 
Duffman said:
Wouldn’t be surprised if Spence was followed out the door by Tav, Fry and Jones for a combined £40m to £45m. Capitalise on them now before their game time is limited by new arrivals.
Can see Wilder completely rebuilding with Howson off as well. Only one I would be desperately disappointed to see go out would be Djiksteel. I don’t think Wilder is particularly wedded to many of the current squad. Exciting times ahead.
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I very rarely actually LOL but I did to this.

Good work.
 
I like Tavernier. I think he’s got more influential as he’s got more experienced, but he’s still not the finished article. His decision making looks to have improved in the last year and he seems to have grown up a little bit. He’s fairly quick and agile, puts in a lot during a game and is versatile too - I’d be disappointed if he left. I get the feeling he will want to go if there is PL interest as he’s obviously ambitious, so it’s probably worth letting go for a reasonable fee rather than doing his end in by sitting on him. If he chooses well and keeps developing over the next few years he should become a reasonable PL player (for what that’s worth). If he doesn’t choose well, he’ll chuck his career away and he’d better staying at the boro. Important he gets a good manager and coaches that will help him develop, if he does go. Players are fast, high quality and expendable in the PL and it’s a whole new ball game. I think he could do it though, but he’d need to accept he may be be more of a water carrier player there as he’s no Erikson.
 
TheYorkshireTerrier said:
So if you don't make the TOTY you can't be classed as one of the best players in the league?
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Spot on, you can be the third best central midfielder and not make TOTY but still be one of the best. Although it's probably fair to point out that I classed him as one of the best YOUNG midfielders in the league, I think he has to find a bit more consistency, improve his right foot, and look to get into the pocket between def-mid with his head up a little more often. He's got the 'keep it simple' and 'work hard' down to a tee, it's the game changer stuff he needs to add a bit more of now to push on.
 
Anything between £10m and £15m would be a good fee for him. I'm not fully convinced by Tav. He had a good few months last season so I've re-assessed slightly but he doesn't have any outstanding attributes. I don't think he's a Premier League player and he will struggle with the step-up. If we can replace him then we'd be better off watching him struggle to get to grips in the PL with another team instead of in our team next when we get promoted next season.

He takes all of our set pieces but I don't think he's got good delivery. His decision making is mostly poor, choosing to shoot when he shouldn't way too often, especially when he plays out wide.

I'd be happy if he stays because he's definitely good enough for us but I wouldn't be too disappointed if he left either. I think we could improve the squad with £10m+ by more than we'd lose if he went.
 
Tav is only 22 if your running an academy successfully you need to give them the time and opportunity to fulfil their potential . I’d only sell if we had to right now based on contract
 
He has definitely improved incrementally each year. He needs to add goals a assists, which I think he will do this year, especially with better forwards. Bournemouth would need to double their bid for me to be remotely interested but I really hope he stays.
 
viv_andersons_nana said:
He's one of those 'core' players that you wouldn't really want to sell but I think it's worth remembering that we've finished 7th, 10th, 17th and 7th in the past four seasons. Up until the period just after Wilder came in through to the end of March time this season, we hadn't really pulled up any trees for about four years. Tav was a central part of the team for most of that time. There were/are shortcomings in other areas, obviously. But you think... is he absolutely irreplaceable?

We do have a group of good players but could you sell Tav and bring in two equally good players, therefore strengthening the group as a whole? Maybe the club think they can.

We know Tav has some really good qualities and is a big player for us on his day but also needs to improve certain things, the best way of doing that might be to move on and hear a new set of voices on the training field. He's been around the same environment for years. Same goes for Fry. We're waiting for them to take the team by the scruff of the neck but maybe this is sort of their limit.

As I say, we have a good core of players and Tav isn't one you'd actively look to sell but if a good bid comes in and the player is interested it wouldn't be the end of the world IMO. I like him a lot and think he brings a lot but it might just need freshening up.
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Maybe. But I think he finished the season strongly and Wilder is by far and away the best and most forward thinking manager he's played for (and is obviously a new voice).

For most of his career it's been dinosaur football or Woodgate. He's also been shifted around in different positions.

I'm going to stick my neck out and say after a full season playing for Wilder (if Tav stays) he'll be one of the most sought after players in the league and in the Championship team of the season.
 
Seems some confusion over his contract - if its till 2023 then £10m is a decent offer, if its until 2024 then I cant see us selling him unless an offer of double that came in, which seems unlikely, or unless Tav himself said he really wanted to go

Hes a good player and could be key to us next season but he's by no means irreplaceable, as evidenced by Wilder playing him out wide on occasion. As others have said though you kinda get the feeling that he doesnt really fulfil his potential and you wonder if he ever will?
 
We probably need to sell every other season or so whilst in the championship. I’m confident the club will do all it can to get us up this season so won’t be worrying too much on the many ifs and buts
 
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